1 00:00:04,220 --> 00:00:08,680 There was immense joy when a record goes to number one. 2 00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:12,680 We knew every five days we had to churn out a hit. 3 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:15,000 It was only a matter of, "How do we make great pop music?" 4 00:00:15,020 --> 00:00:16,960 Everything else was secondary to that. 5 00:00:20,620 --> 00:00:22,600 As a team, magic. 6 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:25,040 It's always clever, it's always catchy. 7 00:00:25,060 --> 00:00:28,520 There was this smouldering genius taking place. 8 00:00:28,540 --> 00:00:32,520 9 00:00:32,540 --> 00:00:35,280 Over 100 Top 40 hits 10 00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:37,240 in a period of four or five years. 11 00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:39,840 I mean, nobody does that. 12 00:00:41,140 --> 00:00:43,040 13 00:00:43,060 --> 00:00:45,040 14 00:00:45,060 --> 00:00:46,840 15 00:00:46,860 --> 00:00:49,800 It was classic pop, it was uncompromised. 16 00:00:49,820 --> 00:00:51,880 It's what the '80s were, you know, 17 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:53,880 and Stock Aitken Waterman defined it. 18 00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:56,280 I always look for the magic. 19 00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:59,080 There's some magic operating in all hit songs. 20 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:01,080 21 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:03,480 It was fun. It was super exciting. 22 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:05,400 But they were on a mission, big time. 23 00:01:05,420 --> 00:01:07,200 You were on the crest of a wave. 24 00:01:07,220 --> 00:01:09,040 The harder you work, the luckier you get. 25 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:11,920 26 00:01:11,940 --> 00:01:14,160 27 00:01:14,180 --> 00:01:17,720 It's a lot to have one hit, but to have the whole of the Top 10, 28 00:01:17,740 --> 00:01:19,440 I mean, that's just showing off, isn't it? 29 00:01:19,460 --> 00:01:21,880 Most people treated pop music as trivial. 30 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:23,600 It was more serious than life and death to us. 31 00:01:25,620 --> 00:01:28,240 I knew the industry was out to screw us. 32 00:01:28,260 --> 00:01:30,440 I had to fight all along. 33 00:01:30,460 --> 00:01:33,440 That it ended the way it did was tragic. 34 00:01:33,460 --> 00:01:38,440 Of love in the first degree. 35 00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:41,000 I'd probably had enough by that time, you know. 36 00:01:41,020 --> 00:01:43,240 Probably sick to death of each other! 37 00:01:43,260 --> 00:01:46,480 I really do believe the three of them are geniuses. 38 00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:49,280 I think the records still sound as good today 39 00:01:49,300 --> 00:01:52,120 as they did 30, 35 years ago. 40 00:01:52,140 --> 00:01:56,160 41 00:01:56,180 --> 00:01:59,200 42 00:01:59,220 --> 00:02:00,960 43 00:02:00,980 --> 00:02:06,080 I'm just immensely proud that I'm part of that legacy. 44 00:02:06,100 --> 00:02:08,280 It was a pretty wild ride. 45 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:11,400 To get down and boogie 46 00:02:11,420 --> 00:02:15,680 Step back in time. 47 00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:24,240 I was really interested from the age of about seven in writing songs. 48 00:02:24,260 --> 00:02:26,560 You know, you start with a blank sheet of paper, 49 00:02:26,580 --> 00:02:29,520 and you come up with something that can be popular 50 00:02:29,540 --> 00:02:31,040 and sold all over the world. 51 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:35,000 I got given a transistor radio, 52 00:02:35,020 --> 00:02:36,840 I think I was probably eight or nine. 53 00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:39,200 It had an ear plug with it, I would go upstairs to bed, 54 00:02:39,220 --> 00:02:42,280 and then in went the earpiece, and on came Radio Luxembourg. 55 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:45,440 That was when pop music started to become important to me. 56 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:51,160 I'd got a really good, eclectic record collection, 57 00:02:51,180 --> 00:02:53,360 so I started doing discos. 58 00:02:53,380 --> 00:02:55,400 It was a Saturday night, and I was spotted by 59 00:02:55,420 --> 00:02:57,640 the local Mecca manager, and then he said, 60 00:02:57,660 --> 00:02:59,400 did I want a job at the Locarno? 61 00:02:59,420 --> 00:03:03,400 I'd just got myself and electric piano, erm, 62 00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:06,840 had an acoustic guitar and a very primitive drum machine. 63 00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:09,040 Ancl so by the time I'm 10 or 11, 64 00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:11,440 I'm writing some songs and accompanying myself. 65 00:03:11,460 --> 00:03:14,280 I had set myself a quest 66 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:17,400 of being the greatest guitar player in the world. 67 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:18,920 "Mum, can I have a guitar?" 68 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:21,440 The answer to that was, "You can have a guitar, 69 00:03:21,460 --> 00:03:23,760 "but first, you've got to learn to play the piano." 70 00:03:23,780 --> 00:03:26,360 So what that did teach me was proper technique, 71 00:03:26,380 --> 00:03:27,680 and it taught me theory. 72 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:31,960 I saw that Magnet Records were looking for promotion guys. 73 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:34,200 Now, the last thing I wanted to do was... 74 00:03:34,220 --> 00:03:36,040 I didn't want to be a promotion guy, 75 00:03:36,060 --> 00:03:38,640 and I thought, "Well, at least I'd get into the music industry." 76 00:03:38,660 --> 00:03:42,280 My band did dinner music, we did weddings, bar mitzvahs. 77 00:03:42,300 --> 00:03:45,000 It didn't really matter, we would cater to most people. 78 00:03:45,020 --> 00:03:48,000 Ancl one particular evening, my guitarist let me down again, 79 00:03:48,020 --> 00:03:49,960 he'd fallen off stage... HE CH UCKLES 80 00:03:49,980 --> 00:03:53,440 ...drunk, and I was on the lookout, I needed another guitarist. 81 00:03:53,460 --> 00:03:56,760 I asked the girl singer or anybody, did they know anyone? 82 00:03:56,780 --> 00:03:59,400 Ancl she said to me, "Well, I know Matt Aitken." 83 00:03:59,420 --> 00:04:01,400 I got a phone call one Saturday night, 84 00:04:01,420 --> 00:04:03,720 "Can you do a dep with my band?" 85 00:04:03,740 --> 00:04:05,600 He was a great guitarist, you know. 86 00:04:05,620 --> 00:04:08,960 Ancl these were, well, you know, good-paying gigs in the West End. 87 00:04:08,980 --> 00:04:12,520 Whilst Matt would be playing with me in the band at the Hilton, etc, 88 00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:14,960 on other nights, we would be in rock pubs 89 00:04:14,980 --> 00:04:18,400 doing songs that I'd already written, my own material. 90 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:23,480 And Matt added a dimension to that, and he was clearly, you know, 91 00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:26,400 influencing what we were doing and how it was sounding. 92 00:04:26,420 --> 00:04:30,640 He said to me one clay, you know, "If we keep relying on these gigs, 93 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:35,000 "we're not going to get the studio side of it away, the creative side." 94 00:04:35,020 --> 00:04:38,240 I'm going into a studio that I've built under my house, 95 00:04:38,260 --> 00:04:41,040 which Matt had been involved with, 96 00:04:41,060 --> 00:04:44,160 and I'm gonna go into record production 97 00:04:44,180 --> 00:04:46,560 and break it into the wider music industry. 98 00:04:46,580 --> 00:04:48,400 Matt said, "I'm coming with you. 99 00:04:48,420 --> 00:04:50,160 "You know, I'm keen on doing that as well." 100 00:04:50,180 --> 00:04:54,200 Got a call from a friend who I'd signed called Peter Collins, 101 00:04:54,220 --> 00:04:57,200 who really was a writer-producer. 102 00:04:57,220 --> 00:05:02,560 And I was getting nowhere at Magnet. So, I sort of teamed up with Peter. 103 00:05:02,580 --> 00:05:04,840 And we did Tracy Ullman for Stiff. 104 00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:07,440 Tracy Ullman was huge for us. 105 00:05:07,460 --> 00:05:10,480 Then we did Nik Kershaw and Matt Bianco. 106 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,160 So we got an amazing little thing going. 107 00:05:13,180 --> 00:05:15,360 I mean, we had the biggest record in the world 108 00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:17,360 with Musical Youth, Pass The Dutchie. 109 00:05:17,380 --> 00:05:19,640 But I wanted more. I wanted something different. 110 00:05:19,660 --> 00:05:23,000 There was just so many brilliant influences going on 111 00:05:23,020 --> 00:05:24,760 around about that time in the '80s. 112 00:05:24,780 --> 00:05:27,040 When I got really, you know, 113 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:30,440 became a pop addict in my early teens, 114 00:05:30,460 --> 00:05:34,120 I listened to a lot of British pop. 115 00:05:34,140 --> 00:05:36,000 Duran Duran, Adam And The Ants, 116 00:05:36,020 --> 00:05:39,200 so much of that kind of new-wave music. 117 00:05:39,220 --> 00:05:42,960 The New Orders, the Heaven 17s, the The Thes, 118 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:47,280 you know, the Bowies, which was sort of unisex 119 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:51,800 and quite alternative and credible. 120 00:05:51,820 --> 00:05:56,840 Trevor Horn with Frankie and ABC, very processed drums, 121 00:05:56,860 --> 00:05:59,520 so, really, technology came into the pop world. 122 00:05:59,540 --> 00:06:05,200 You had this massive mix of different musical styles 123 00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:06,880 all happening at the same time. 124 00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:09,600 I got a call from a guy called Mike Stock. 125 00:06:09,620 --> 00:06:11,920 He said, could he come and see me? 126 00:06:11,940 --> 00:06:14,800 They came up with Matt, and they played me this song. 127 00:06:14,820 --> 00:06:17,120 It was called The Upstroke. 128 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:18,960 I came into the studio one clay, and Mike said, 129 00:06:18,980 --> 00:06:20,400 "God, you've had a good shave." 130 00:06:20,420 --> 00:06:22,200 And I said, "Oh, it's cos did the upstrokes." 131 00:06:22,220 --> 00:06:23,680 He said, "That's a great title!" 132 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:27,760 Ancl so we just wrote this sort of gimmicky, boppy dance track. 133 00:06:27,780 --> 00:06:31,640 There was something about the track that was, like, 134 00:06:31,660 --> 00:06:33,680 "Whoa, this is different." 135 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:37,920 He let it go to the second chorus, and then he stopped it. 136 00:06:37,940 --> 00:06:41,040 "I like it, but it's got to be more radical." 137 00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:42,680 He sort of reached down under his desk, 138 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:45,760 and he pulled out a record and put it on the turntable, 139 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:47,560 and he played this, and it was the... 140 00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:52,600 it was the New York mix of Relax, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, and said, 141 00:06:52,620 --> 00:06:55,480 "Can you make this sound like this?" 142 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:57,240 Ancl we said, "Yes." 143 00:06:57,260 --> 00:06:59,240 And he said, "You sound very confident." 144 00:06:59,260 --> 00:07:00,440 Ancl we said, "We are." 145 00:07:00,460 --> 00:07:03,680 So, Pete, therefore, had sort of imagination 146 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:05,280 that he agreed to book a studio, 147 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:07,640 and that was the Marquee Studio in Wardour Street. 148 00:07:07,660 --> 00:07:10,240 The first record they brought in was The Upstroke. 149 00:07:10,260 --> 00:07:12,000 You know, "This track's been recorded, 150 00:07:12,020 --> 00:07:14,360 "we want it to sound like Frankie Goes To Hollywood." 151 00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:18,000 Mike came up with the band's name, Agents Aren't Aeroplanes. 152 00:07:18,020 --> 00:07:21,640 That was a quote from John Le Carre, The Spy Who Came In From The Cold. 153 00:07:21,660 --> 00:07:24,800 We had some artwork done like Frankie Goes To Hollywood. 154 00:07:24,820 --> 00:07:26,960 They probably spent five or six drum. 155 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:29,160 We spent three quid, I think. 156 00:07:29,180 --> 00:07:32,280 Because if you look at the sleeve, it's bloody awful. 157 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,880 But it was evocative of the moment. 158 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:38,360 And the first person to play a Stock Aitken Waterman record 159 00:07:38,380 --> 00:07:41,880 was the best Dj in Britain at the time, and that was john Peel. 160 00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:45,320 Now, john Peel at that time was the god of music. 161 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:46,480 He thought it was great! 162 00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:48,280 163 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:51,640 164 00:07:51,660 --> 00:07:55,920 The upstroke 165 00:07:55,940 --> 00:07:58,680 166 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:00,600 The track sounded a bit unusual. 167 00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:04,920 Certainly, it was different from anything else that was going around. 168 00:08:04,940 --> 00:08:06,600 And that was the start. 169 00:08:06,620 --> 00:08:08,880 It was a progression, you know, we were moving up. 170 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:12,320 We might have enough money to make another record, 171 00:08:12,340 --> 00:08:15,280 but we weren't making, you know, any big money then. 172 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:17,600 Mike and I wrote the songs. 173 00:08:17,620 --> 00:08:21,040 Mike and I did the arrangement that became the single. 174 00:08:21,060 --> 00:08:25,280 Peter was our eyes and ears, Peter dealt with the business, 175 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:28,560 dealt with finding new people for us to work with, 176 00:08:28,580 --> 00:08:30,840 and interfaced on our behalf 177 00:08:30,860 --> 00:08:33,440 with the outside world and the record companies. 178 00:08:33,460 --> 00:08:36,320 We would go down to a pub called the Gladstone 179 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:38,520 most nights at ten o'clock when we finished. 180 00:08:38,540 --> 00:08:43,560 It was that point when I said, "OK, we've got to do this ourselves." 181 00:08:43,580 --> 00:08:48,520 "If we shared everything equally, production credits, writing credits, 182 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:52,160 "everything, we would therefore be a strong unit." 183 00:08:52,180 --> 00:08:55,880 And we shake our hands on that, which we did outside the pub. 184 00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:58,360 And from that moment, we were Stock Aitken and Waterman. 185 00:08:58,380 --> 00:09:01,240 And Matt said, "|t sounds like a firm of solicitors." 186 00:09:01,260 --> 00:09:02,880 I said, "I bloody hope so." 187 00:09:12,780 --> 00:09:14,640 There was a point at the beginning of it all 188 00:09:14,660 --> 00:09:16,560 when we were following the trend and saying, 189 00:09:16,580 --> 00:09:18,560 "We need to make high-energy dance music here, 190 00:09:18,580 --> 00:09:19,920 because there's a market." 191 00:09:19,940 --> 00:09:23,440 The high-energy sort of disco which was like underground club scene, 192 00:09:23,460 --> 00:09:25,400 which my mother was really big in, 193 00:09:25,420 --> 00:09:28,800 so she was having like a big hit with So Many Men, So Little Time. 194 00:09:28,820 --> 00:09:31,320 My auntie was also a disco diva. 195 00:09:31,340 --> 00:09:33,200 Amii Stewart, she'd had big hits 196 00:09:33,220 --> 00:09:35,400 with Knock On Wood and Come On, Baby, Light My Fire. 197 00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:38,560 I never knew those kind of songs were called high-energy records. 198 00:09:38,580 --> 00:09:42,440 The guy that's helped us out mostly was Barry Evangeli, 199 00:09:42,460 --> 00:09:44,640 who ran a record label called Pro to Records. 200 00:09:44,660 --> 00:09:47,040 He was purely interested in the clubs, 201 00:09:47,060 --> 00:09:50,720 and Pete knew him, as well as a man called Nick East, 202 00:09:50,740 --> 00:09:54,000 and they were working in that field, in the club field. 203 00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:56,280 And basically, it was me, him and the secretary. 204 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,760 I was the general manager, promo guy. 205 00:09:58,780 --> 00:10:00,960 The first Hazell Dean record, Searchin', 206 00:10:00,980 --> 00:10:03,760 was a huge hit in all the gay clubs. 207 00:10:03,780 --> 00:10:05,640 The first club I ever sang in, 208 00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:08,160 a big gay club in London called Heaven, 209 00:10:08,180 --> 00:10:10,840 and Searchin' was number one in the gay chart. 210 00:10:10,860 --> 00:10:13,920 That evening when I did that show, I actually, 211 00:10:13,940 --> 00:10:18,160 I'd been singing in a band, in London, in a hotel! 212 00:10:18,180 --> 00:10:21,280 I went over to Heaven! Ha! 213 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:24,600 And it was like, "Whoa!" And, erm, well... 214 00:10:24,620 --> 00:10:27,440 I hadn't even walked on the stage, and they were going crazy, 215 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:30,280 and I just fell in love with everybody, didn't I? 216 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:31,480 I mean, they loved me. 217 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:33,240 218 00:10:33,260 --> 00:10:35,240 219 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:38,600 220 00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:40,560 221 00:10:40,580 --> 00:10:44,480 222 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:47,920 223 00:10:47,940 --> 00:10:49,720 Well, we'd had the hit with Searchin', 224 00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:52,560 and Divine's manager came over to London, 225 00:10:52,580 --> 00:10:55,080 and came to Barry and I and said, 226 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:57,240 "Look, I've got this artist called Divine." 227 00:10:57,260 --> 00:10:59,520 Ancl Nick East told me about Divine 228 00:10:59,540 --> 00:11:03,440 and asked me to make the record, 229 00:11:03,460 --> 00:11:07,200 explained to me a bit more about who he was 230 00:11:07,220 --> 00:11:09,920 and how outrageous he could be. 231 00:11:09,940 --> 00:11:12,640 Excuse me, I promised I'd be good. 232 00:11:12,660 --> 00:11:15,920 We all know stories of what went on in Lust In The Dust or something! 233 00:11:15,940 --> 00:11:18,080 So we knew what we were taking on. 234 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:20,120 I am Divine! 235 00:11:20,140 --> 00:11:23,440 They bought Divine in, as this sort of middle-aged man, 236 00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:24,960 you know, with a bald head. 237 00:11:24,980 --> 00:11:27,480 AITKIN: The thing is, when he's not in uniform, 238 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:29,840 he is an avuncular-uncle type. 239 00:11:29,860 --> 00:11:32,600 He said, "Can you make a record?" Cos he has a huge following. 240 00:11:32,620 --> 00:11:35,280 So we said we'd try, but it was off the wall. 241 00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:36,960 When I got into the studio to record him, 242 00:11:36,980 --> 00:11:38,280 cos that's always my aim, 243 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:39,840 I work with the singers all the time, 244 00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:42,320 and I was trying to make him sound like Pavarotti! 245 00:11:42,340 --> 00:11:44,640 I'd managed to get him to sing this tune quite well. 246 00:11:44,660 --> 00:11:48,400 But you just couldn't see 247 00:11:48,420 --> 00:11:52,640 To satisfy me. 248 00:11:52,660 --> 00:11:54,360 We were very pleased, and, he, Pete... 249 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:55,840 I think Pete was quite pleased. 250 00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:58,040 We didn't want to make a record for nobody, 251 00:11:58,060 --> 00:12:00,000 we'd worked out who we were making it for. 252 00:12:00,020 --> 00:12:02,480 Ancl I suppose you could say in some ways that Pete, 253 00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:07,200 we had to please him first, but he always seems to be pleased. 254 00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:10,240 We'd made a record, we send Divine off to the airport with his manager, 255 00:12:10,260 --> 00:12:13,160 and Barry eventually comes in the studio and went, 256 00:12:13,180 --> 00:12:16,880 "You've got Divine singing." We went, "Yeah." 257 00:12:16,900 --> 00:12:19,880 "No, no, no! I don't want him to sing. 258 00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:22,680 "He's got to shout, that's what he does!" 259 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:24,720 "What've you clone? He doesn't sound like Divine." 260 00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:26,680 Divine had already left for the airport. 261 00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:28,960 There were no mobile phones then, by the way. 262 00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:30,480 So, we had to put a call out, 263 00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:33,560 and we said, "jump in a taxi, come back to the studio, 264 00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:34,960 "we want to re-vocal it." 265 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:37,680 I got him back into the studio to sing it badly. 266 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:39,000 And he shouted it twice 267 00:12:39,020 --> 00:12:41,000 and went back in his taxi and caught the plane. 268 00:12:41,020 --> 00:12:43,240 It surprised us, you know, we got in the charts with it. 269 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:46,560 Take a look around 270 00:12:46,580 --> 00:12:48,720 271 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:50,760 272 00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:53,960 Ancl all mankind. 273 00:12:53,980 --> 00:12:55,960 "If I can get this on Top Of The Pops, 274 00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:58,560 "this will shock so many people." 275 00:12:58,580 --> 00:13:00,920 Everybody was concerned about how he'd come across, 276 00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:03,520 you know, on that show, how behaved he'd be! 277 00:13:03,540 --> 00:13:05,680 Ancl I went to the recording of Top Of The Pops, 278 00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:07,160 and they were very nervous. 279 00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:11,200 But you're only a boy 280 00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:14,400 But you're only a toy 281 00:13:14,420 --> 00:13:18,080 But you just couldn't see 282 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:21,640 To satisfy me. 283 00:13:21,660 --> 00:13:23,400 "Did you see Top Of The Pops last night? 284 00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:25,640 "Did you see that old woman on there?" 285 00:13:25,660 --> 00:13:28,480 I went, "No, that's not a woman, that's a bloke." "What?!" 286 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,560 And I remember, he pulled the taxi up in Dean Street 287 00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:33,840 like, you know, we'd hit a wall! 288 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:35,520 The gay clubs were essential. 289 00:13:35,540 --> 00:13:38,880 The whole club scene was essential to breaking a record, 290 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,440 because major labels had the power, had the money, 291 00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:44,800 to get records on the radio. 292 00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:48,040 The only way we could do it was to get the records on the chart 293 00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:51,920 so it would come on the radar of the radio stations. 294 00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:54,960 And when you've got all the major clubs in the UK 295 00:13:54,980 --> 00:13:57,400 playing your records every Friday, Saturday night, 296 00:13:57,420 --> 00:14:01,720 you're creating a demand for it, so when you release the record, 297 00:14:01,740 --> 00:14:05,040 it would go in at top 40, top 30 or top 20. 298 00:14:05,060 --> 00:14:08,480 In the '60s, it was still illegal to be homosexual. 299 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:11,720 So, you had private clubs, 300 00:14:11,740 --> 00:14:14,320 which were strictly private, 301 00:14:14,340 --> 00:14:16,720 and you couldn't get in unless you... 302 00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:19,520 your name was on the door and they knew who you were. 303 00:14:19,540 --> 00:14:22,080 And I worked at one of these on a Sunday night. 304 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:24,320 And it changed my life. 305 00:14:24,340 --> 00:14:26,600 All the records that I'd loved to play, 306 00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:29,040 like Fontella Bass, and stuff like Motown, 307 00:14:29,060 --> 00:14:31,200 they just adored. 308 00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:33,080 They danced all night. 309 00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:35,720 And to me, I looked forward to every Sunday. 310 00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:37,960 I knew I could play something there, 311 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:39,760 and I would instantly get a response, 312 00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:41,320 whether it worked, or it didn't work. 313 00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:43,880 I guess when I went to Heaven, 314 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:47,760 I was back in '64, '65, 315 00:14:47,780 --> 00:14:50,560 because I saw the same reaction. It was like, 316 00:14:50,580 --> 00:14:53,880 "I can be a company that makes these records for these people." 317 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:58,120 A club DJ earns his keep by keeping the dance floor packed. 318 00:14:58,140 --> 00:15:01,160 If he puts music out there that nobody likes, 319 00:15:01,180 --> 00:15:02,480 the floor clears up, 320 00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:04,920 and the manager says, "Don't come back." 321 00:15:04,940 --> 00:15:09,160 When we'd made a record, with what was called an acetate, 322 00:15:09,180 --> 00:15:12,120 which was... we used to make a record - 323 00:15:12,140 --> 00:15:14,960 made of wax, it wouldn't last very long - 324 00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:17,800 and you try and get your DJ to play the record. 325 00:15:17,820 --> 00:15:20,440 And I would go up in the DJ, in the cage, 326 00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:23,640 you know, where the DJ was, looking down on the dance floor, 327 00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:27,600 and I would know in about 30 seconds whether I had a hit or not. 328 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:31,240 They would just stop dancing, or they would go crazy. 329 00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:34,920 I'm in Pro to Records one day, and who should be there? 330 00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:36,960 Pete Waterman. SHE CHUCKLES 331 00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:39,560 "How you doing, then, kid?" "Yeah, I'm doing fine." 332 00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:41,560 Searchin' was sitting at number six in the charts, 333 00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:43,280 and I hadn't got a follow-up. 334 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:45,840 He said, "Do you wanna come down to the Marquee Studio and meet 335 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:48,680 these two guys I'm working with?" I said, "Oh, yeah, really?" 336 00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:51,320 He said, "Yeah." He said, "I think you should come and meet them 337 00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:52,800 "and listen to what we're doing." 338 00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:55,880 Peter was in Barry's ear. He said, "My boys are the greatest." 339 00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:59,120 But I got on great with Mike and Matt because they were great... 340 00:15:59,140 --> 00:16:02,120 they were great musicians, they worked in dance bands as well, 341 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:04,920 and they did a lot of the same sort of shows and all the kind of stuff 342 00:16:04,940 --> 00:16:07,720 that I was doing in various bands in London at that time, 343 00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:09,520 the hotel circuit and all that kind of stuff, 344 00:16:09,540 --> 00:16:10,880 so we had a lot in common, really. 345 00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:13,320 Go, go, go... 346 00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:16,600 We had a song that we'd just written for a guy. 347 00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:18,800 "Let's put that up for consideration." 348 00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:21,200 So we re-demoed it in a girl's key and sent that up. 349 00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:24,120 So I said, "I really like this song, but I don't like that chorus." 350 00:16:24,140 --> 00:16:27,960 Dance your love away... 351 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:31,200 But it happened so quickly, and when they sent it to me, 352 00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:34,400 it was Whatever I Do as we now know and love it today. 353 00:16:34,420 --> 00:16:36,640 Wherever I go... 354 00:16:36,660 --> 00:16:38,920 And I said, "Yeah, that's fantastic." 355 00:16:38,940 --> 00:16:40,280 And we just... 356 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:43,480 I just went in more or less as quickly as we could to record it. 357 00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:46,360 Hazell's a pro. Once she got tune in her head, she was off and running. 358 00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:49,120 Wherever I go 359 00:16:49,140 --> 00:16:52,600 Back to you 360 00:16:53,860 --> 00:16:56,720 Wherever you go 361 00:16:56,740 --> 00:17:00,920 Over you 362 00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:02,640 363 00:17:02,660 --> 00:17:04,520 This was the first record where I thought, 364 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:06,400 "They've just got everything right. 365 00:17:06,420 --> 00:17:09,480 "They've got the sound right, the production's brilliant." 366 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:13,720 367 00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:18,040 368 00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:22,440 Out of my mind? 369 00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:25,080 Everything about that record was incredible. 370 00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:28,040 Wherever I go 371 00:17:28,060 --> 00:17:30,880 Back to you... 372 00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:32,520 I just thought, 373 00:17:32,540 --> 00:17:36,080 "These guys are in a different league to everybody else." 374 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,520 Hazell went to number four. We got a silver disc for that. 375 00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:42,480 We knew that that "dum-dum, dum-dum, dum-dum" 376 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:45,720 was a metronomic beat, along with the drums, 377 00:17:45,740 --> 00:17:48,800 that worked perfectly for people who wanted to dance. 378 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:51,160 DANCE MUSIC PLAYS 379 00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:56,520 Right from day one, 380 00:17:56,540 --> 00:17:59,760 the records we were making had to be metronomic. 381 00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:01,440 Because that's what it was all about. 382 00:18:01,460 --> 00:18:05,400 Our, if you could call it, plan, was just... 383 00:18:05,420 --> 00:18:09,720 write a song, put it to a dance beat. 384 00:18:09,740 --> 00:18:12,360 Then, potentially, you can capture radio, 385 00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:15,240 club and the wider public. 386 00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:18,680 Pete Burns of Dead Or Alive heard Whatever I Do (Wherever I Go) 387 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:20,320 Coming out of his radio... 388 00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:22,960 He said, "I wanna make a record like Hazell Dean." 389 00:18:22,980 --> 00:18:25,240 ...found out who'd produced it, and made contact 390 00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:28,200 with Stock Aitken and Waterman to make his record. 391 00:18:28,220 --> 00:18:30,800 "Would I like to meet Pete Burns?" 392 00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:32,640 Cos they would like us to make a record. 393 00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:35,800 And I couldn't take my eyes off him, so I knew it was, like, 394 00:18:35,820 --> 00:18:37,800 "Whoa, this is quite incredible." 395 00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:41,240 Dead Or Alive, they had a record deal with CBS. 396 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:44,280 It was, at the time, probably the biggest record label. 397 00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:47,400 Pete said to me, "You know, this is a major act for us, 398 00:18:47,420 --> 00:18:49,400 "on a major label. We've got a great budget." 399 00:18:49,420 --> 00:18:53,400 Pete Burns would always turn up to the studio in the full outfit - 400 00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:55,600 the big hair and the make-up. 401 00:18:55,620 --> 00:18:57,560 And he played me three tracks. 402 00:18:57,580 --> 00:19:02,280 And then he played me Spin Me Round. And I went, "That'll do!" 403 00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:05,240 It was that song, of all their songs that they had, 404 00:19:05,260 --> 00:19:07,920 that Pete thought we should work on first. 405 00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:12,560 We changed the arrangement of the structure of the song, 406 00:19:12,580 --> 00:19:14,960 just to make it flow, what we thought, better. 407 00:19:14,980 --> 00:19:17,840 So, the whole process was very slow, very painstaking. 408 00:19:17,860 --> 00:19:21,040 On that particular track, a lot of the parts were already programmed, 409 00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:24,640 and it was a matter of putting those down with the right sound. 410 00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:27,840 Matt and me didn't really need any help from the band members. 411 00:19:27,860 --> 00:19:31,280 We were busy trying to get the technology that we needed 412 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:32,840 to realise that record. 413 00:19:32,860 --> 00:19:35,120 Mike Stock told him, quite rightly at one point, 414 00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:37,360 Pete Burns, we weren't teachers, 415 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:39,920 we weren't there to teach him how the desk worked. 416 00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:41,880 We were there to give him hit records, 417 00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:43,840 which Pete took like a lead balloon. 418 00:19:43,860 --> 00:19:47,120 How, how, how... 419 00:19:47,140 --> 00:19:49,280 Once we got the vocals on, it was great, 420 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:52,000 cos Pete just aced it, and, er... 421 00:19:52,020 --> 00:19:54,800 and I just aced it, as well. HE CH UCKLES 422 00:19:54,820 --> 00:19:57,760 Pete Burns, and possibly other members of the band, 423 00:19:57,780 --> 00:20:00,480 didn't really understand the mixing process. 424 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:03,880 We were at loggerheads. I mean, we really were at loggerheads. 425 00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:06,160 I sort of said, "OK, guys, off you go. 426 00:20:06,180 --> 00:20:07,960 "All of you, out the studio." 427 00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:10,320 And said to me, "Phil, you're staying there." 428 00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:12,240 "We're gonna finish this. 429 00:20:12,260 --> 00:20:15,320 "And if you don't like it, that's it, we're over." 430 00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:20,640 And Pete Waterman and I set about a long evening's mix. 431 00:20:20,660 --> 00:20:25,760 At about 10:30, 11 o'clock, the desk broke down, 432 00:20:25,780 --> 00:20:29,440 and we had to wait for the engineer to come up from South end. 433 00:20:29,460 --> 00:20:32,840 So he didn't get there till 12:30. 434 00:20:32,860 --> 00:20:35,040 First to hear it would've been Mike and Matt. 435 00:20:35,060 --> 00:20:37,080 They used to arrive at around 10:00 in the morning. 436 00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:41,320 Played the record to Matt and Mike, and Mike made some comments, 437 00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:43,600 cos I'd got certain things wrong in the mix. 438 00:20:43,620 --> 00:20:48,440 Now, there's no way, at this point, I can rectify this. 439 00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:51,440 I said, "For Christ's sake, don't say anything." 440 00:20:51,460 --> 00:20:54,640 So, Pete Burns and the boys came in. 441 00:20:54,660 --> 00:20:56,960 And I said to Phil, "Right, whack it up 442 00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:59,640 "as loud as it'll go on the big speaker." 443 00:20:59,660 --> 00:21:02,840 I watched Pete Burns' face. It was like a child. 444 00:21:02,860 --> 00:21:06,040 Within 20 seconds, he's jumping up and down, 445 00:21:06,060 --> 00:21:09,200 they're all whooping, they're all getting excited. 446 00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:12,120 447 00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:14,800 448 00:21:16,820 --> 00:21:19,800 449 00:21:19,820 --> 00:21:24,680 Baby 450 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:26,840 451 00:21:26,860 --> 00:21:28,800 452 00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:32,320 I want some, want some... 453 00:21:32,340 --> 00:21:34,720 First time I ever heard it in a club, 454 00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:38,160 it was, like, everybody went, "What is this?!" 455 00:21:38,180 --> 00:21:40,360 We had a lot of confidence in the record, 456 00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:44,240 but it just seemed that the machinery of the record company 457 00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:46,200 was preventing it from going to where it want. 458 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:49,160 And, in fact, it turned out that... 459 00:21:49,180 --> 00:21:51,120 they just weren't pressing enough 12 inches, 460 00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:54,600 and a lot of the demand was for... We had two or three mixes. 461 00:21:54,620 --> 00:21:57,040 They were pressing a lot of 7 inches, but not enough 12 inches, 462 00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:58,520 and that was really throttling it. 463 00:21:58,540 --> 00:22:00,920 Once they caught up with what they should have been doing, 464 00:22:00,940 --> 00:22:03,120 that's when it started to really climb. 465 00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:05,920 I mean, You Spin Me Round was just the perfect pop record. 466 00:22:05,940 --> 00:22:09,040 It was, er... great on the radio, 467 00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:13,400 it was a song that you could really dance to. 468 00:22:13,420 --> 00:22:16,200 Ancl I guess Stock Aitken and Waterman, that was their route, 469 00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:19,960 that's what they did, they made high-energy dance music. 470 00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:22,760 And, of course, gave them their first-ever UK number one. 471 00:22:22,780 --> 00:22:26,520 I'm going, "Thank you very much. I can buy a house now. 472 00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:30,160 "That's it, mansion in the country. Swimming pool. 473 00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:32,440 "I might be able to buy two mansions. 474 00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:34,200 We sort of rubbed our hands, thought 475 00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:36,000 "Yeah, there we are, we've made it." 476 00:22:36,020 --> 00:22:38,240 And nobody called us. Nobody rang up. 477 00:22:39,620 --> 00:22:41,440 Phone stopped ringing, really. 478 00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:54,360 One of the things that was apparent at the time 479 00:22:54,380 --> 00:22:58,600 was that Pete was financially in a hole. 480 00:22:58,620 --> 00:23:01,600 And he had done some amazing ducking and diving. 481 00:23:01,620 --> 00:23:04,360 And I said to Pete, "Look, you're in difficulty financially, 482 00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:07,160 "I'm very happy to give you my money that I've just made," 483 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:09,640 and in return, he gave me a piece of the company. 484 00:23:09,660 --> 00:23:12,520 And then he said, "Well, why don't you just run PWL?" 485 00:23:12,540 --> 00:23:16,360 I was saying to Pete, "Pete, we should get our own studio." 486 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:18,560 That's been my maxim throughout life - 487 00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:20,840 do it yourself, do everything yourself. 488 00:23:20,860 --> 00:23:23,360 It seemed to be Mike driving it. 489 00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:25,400 So at the beginning of '85, 490 00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:29,080 we came out of the Marquee and moved into our own studio. 491 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:31,160 You went down this cul-de-sac 492 00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:34,280 of what looked like Victorian warehouses. 493 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,200 The Vine Yard, being an old power station, 494 00:23:36,220 --> 00:23:40,120 had very thick walls, so it had some acoustic properties. 495 00:23:40,140 --> 00:23:44,080 You came across this brick building with these steel doors. 496 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:45,840 But the way this place worked was, 497 00:23:45,860 --> 00:23:48,600 by the time you went up the staircase 498 00:23:48,620 --> 00:23:51,200 and into the studio, people were very relaxed. 499 00:23:51,220 --> 00:23:54,400 It was just a great atmosphere to be in. 500 00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:57,960 We brought with us our team, Phil Harding came with us. 501 00:23:57,980 --> 00:24:00,560 I could feel that this team was going somewhere. 502 00:24:00,580 --> 00:24:03,800 There was a camaraderie there that was built up, 503 00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:06,080 which was part of our strength, I think. 504 00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:07,480 We were all pulling together. 505 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,960 We scrabbled around, because as I said, the phone wasn't going. 506 00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:12,800 We were sitting at number one, and thinking, 507 00:24:12,820 --> 00:24:16,400 "Well, we're in our new studio here, what are we gonna do?" 508 00:24:16,420 --> 00:24:19,320 I mean, we've gotta make a living. We've got bills to pay. 509 00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:21,760 We took on a band called Brilliant. 510 00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:24,920 The lady they got to do the backing vocals on that was called Princess. 511 00:24:24,940 --> 00:24:27,640 Well, she was called Desiree Heslop, stage name Princess - 512 00:24:27,660 --> 00:24:29,240 and I thought, "That's a good voice." 513 00:24:29,260 --> 00:24:31,160 They called me to the session, I came to do it, 514 00:24:31,180 --> 00:24:32,560 they liked how I sounded, 515 00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:35,760 and that's how I started to get to know people. 516 00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:37,280 We wrote two songs that afternoon. 517 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:42,120 Ancl there was one track called Save Your Love For Your Number One, 518 00:24:42,140 --> 00:24:44,120 and I changed that to Say I'm Your Number One. 519 00:24:44,140 --> 00:24:46,840 Ancl as soon I said that, Mike nearly fell off his chair. 520 00:24:46,860 --> 00:24:51,400 Come the evening, I asked Desiree if she would stay behind 521 00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:53,880 and sing Say I'm Your Number One. 522 00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:55,600 I said, "I've got to do this. 523 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:58,200 "I can get paid for doing what I love." 524 00:24:58,220 --> 00:25:01,480 It's a song which couldn't be more different from 525 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,080 You Spin Me Round. 526 00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:07,000 The original demo was kind of a Billie jean feel. 527 00:25:07,020 --> 00:25:08,320 "Duh-dun-duh-duh-duh." 528 00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:10,920 Not exactly like that, but more of a mid-tempo thing. 529 00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:14,680 Say, say 530 00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:19,640 531 00:25:19,660 --> 00:25:24,760 It was Mike's brainwave to turn it into more of a jam and Lewis thing 532 00:25:24,780 --> 00:25:28,360 after he'd heard Desiree Princess singing. 533 00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:31,400 So, I would do any little thing that, you know... 534 00:25:31,420 --> 00:25:33,680 Any little thing that came to me, 535 00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:36,240 and they would be like, "Yeah, we'll keep that." 536 00:25:36,260 --> 00:25:38,600 And I was part of it all, you know? 537 00:25:38,620 --> 00:25:41,200 It was... It was my baby, too. 538 00:25:41,220 --> 00:25:43,400 Pete was on holiday. 539 00:25:43,420 --> 00:25:46,680 I finished the record, mixed it with Phil Harding 540 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:50,880 and stuck a cassette on Pete's desk for when he came back, 541 00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:52,440 see what he thought of it. 542 00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:54,920 Because at the time, we was searching round what to do, 543 00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:58,560 so I'd sort of taken a venture out, as it were, 544 00:25:58,580 --> 00:26:01,760 with an unknown girl, singing an unknown song. 545 00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:03,960 Ancl when Pete came back off holiday, he heard it, 546 00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:06,240 and I could hear the commotion in the office. 547 00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:10,880 He was whooping everywhere, and he loved it. 548 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:14,960 Number one, number one 549 00:26:14,980 --> 00:26:20,200 Whoa, whoa 550 00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:24,160 Number one, number one 551 00:26:24,180 --> 00:26:27,720 Say it, say it... 552 00:26:27,740 --> 00:26:29,760 I remember hearing the name Princess. 553 00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:31,360 I said, "You can't call her Princess." 554 00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:34,160 He said, "Princess, it's a dog's name!" 555 00:26:34,180 --> 00:26:36,520 "We've got Prince. "You can't have a Prince and Princess." 556 00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:38,160 "Look how many times you said it." 557 00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:43,640 And he said, "All right, Princess. All right, then." 558 00:26:43,660 --> 00:26:45,480 So then he warmed to it. 559 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:47,120 She was amazing! 560 00:26:47,140 --> 00:26:50,560 I did pour emotion into it, 561 00:26:50,580 --> 00:26:54,840 and no matter what, people feel that. 562 00:26:54,860 --> 00:26:58,200 If you're feeling it, they... they invariably do. 563 00:26:58,220 --> 00:27:00,920 It had... It had... It had that dust on it. 564 00:27:00,940 --> 00:27:05,880 Pete said, "Look, I've just got this studio in south London. 565 00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:08,440 "I'll give you a desk, set a label up." 566 00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:11,480 Set Supreme up, Pete played me Say I'm Your Number One, 567 00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:14,600 he said, "Look, I've tried to place this with the major publishers, 568 00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:17,240 "and they've turned it down. I think it's a hit." 569 00:27:17,260 --> 00:27:19,240 And then, finally when it's released, you know, 570 00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:20,760 we broke into the top ten again. 571 00:27:20,780 --> 00:27:22,840 572 00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:26,560 Number one, number one 573 00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:31,280 574 00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:34,600 575 00:27:34,620 --> 00:27:38,080 576 00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:42,600 577 00:27:45,180 --> 00:27:46,720 578 00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:51,360 She was almost the perfect artist, erm... 579 00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:53,160 Incredible voice, 580 00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:56,200 very articulate, very good at doing interviews. 581 00:27:58,220 --> 00:28:02,000 She had a really unique image, she really stood out. 582 00:28:02,020 --> 00:28:05,880 583 00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,640 Well, we did an album with Princess. 584 00:28:08,660 --> 00:28:11,920 We did several other sort of RandB-ish tracks around that time. 585 00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:15,640 586 00:28:15,660 --> 00:28:19,080 587 00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:24,000 It was so organic, it was so natural, it was so... 588 00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:28,800 We were so cool with each other, everybody was fine. We... 589 00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:31,000 We had... It was a love affair. 590 00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:35,240 I'm gonna keep on loving you 591 00:28:35,260 --> 00:28:39,040 They'll never make me walk away 592 00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:43,600 It's still an easy thing to say 593 00:28:43,620 --> 00:28:47,080 594 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:51,120 We were family, really were like family. 595 00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:52,720 We had a lot of success with Princess, 596 00:28:52,740 --> 00:28:55,480 and she was offered a big deal from Polydor... 597 00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:58,240 which we couldn't compete with, and she signed with Polydor. 598 00:28:58,260 --> 00:29:01,480 We could have gone on for a long time, I think. 599 00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:03,240 Errn, there were other things, 600 00:29:03,260 --> 00:29:06,280 they were also dealing with other artists now, 601 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,120 and the kind of attention that I would have required... 602 00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:14,320 to present the next stage of Princess 603 00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:17,000 wasn't immediately available. 604 00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:19,680 MUSIC: 'Venus' by Bananarama 605 00:29:22,060 --> 00:29:23,480 Bananarama came to us 606 00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:26,400 because Siobhan came up with this idea of doing Venus. 607 00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:27,880 What, the old shocking blue Venus? 608 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:31,560 So, Venus was clone because Bananarama had heard Dead Or Alive. 609 00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:34,440 I remember sitting with Matt and Mike, saying, 610 00:29:34,460 --> 00:29:36,120 "What the hell are we gonna do with this?" 611 00:29:36,140 --> 00:29:40,360 Well, at first, we were pretty trepidatious, because you know, 612 00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:43,200 they'd had lots of hits, we'd seen them on Top Of The Pops. 613 00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:46,960 Cruel summer 614 00:29:49,460 --> 00:29:52,160 615 00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:54,920 616 00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:58,640 Talking Italian... 617 00:29:58,660 --> 00:30:01,320 They were the sort of first real established act we'd worked with. 618 00:30:01,340 --> 00:30:03,840 I think Matt felt, as I did, 619 00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:07,160 that, you know, that's a bit of an extra pressure. 620 00:30:07,180 --> 00:30:10,080 We kind of liked it when we worked with artists for the first time, 621 00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:11,880 who had never had hits, new to the industry, 622 00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:13,240 cos that's like a blank canvas, 623 00:30:13,260 --> 00:30:17,160 and we could be experimental as well as creative as we liked. 624 00:30:17,180 --> 00:30:19,200 So, I recorded the vocals for that. 625 00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:23,560 They get behind the mic, and they knew the song backwards. 626 00:30:23,580 --> 00:30:26,680 I mean, a couple of hours, I've got it down. 627 00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:28,560 I don't need any more. 628 00:30:28,580 --> 00:30:30,720 I couldn't find anything wrong with it. 629 00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:31,960 It's all basically unison, 630 00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:34,240 there's no really harmonies or anything going on. 631 00:30:34,260 --> 00:30:36,440 So I said to them, "That's it, girls, we've got it." 632 00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:37,960 They said, "No, you can't have got it. 633 00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:39,520 "It takes us three clays to do vocals." 634 00:30:39,540 --> 00:30:42,480 I said, "Why does it take you three clays to do vocals?" 635 00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:45,080 "Well, previous producers always took that long to..." 636 00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:47,080 I said, "Look, as far as I'm concerned, 637 00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:49,240 "you've come in and clone it, it's all fine. 638 00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:51,000 "Leave it with me." 639 00:30:51,020 --> 00:30:54,480 Venus, as a song, had a boogie bass line. 640 00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:59,160 Ancl I said to Pete and Matt, "Look, this song will lose something 641 00:30:59,180 --> 00:31:02,360 "unless you keep that bass line, it's integral to the feel of it. 642 00:31:02,380 --> 00:31:04,520 "But we'll brighten it up, we'll chivvy it along, 643 00:31:04,540 --> 00:31:07,040 "and we'll make it sound dancey." 644 00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:11,640 We played the girls the mix, or the tentative mix. 645 00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:15,960 And I said, you know, "So, girls, what do you think?" 646 00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:17,560 Not a word. 647 00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:20,040 So I said, "Well, you must think something." 648 00:31:20,060 --> 00:31:22,600 "Well, it doesn't sound like Spin Me Round, does it?" 649 00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:27,640 "What? You didn't say you wanted it to sound like Spin Me Round." 650 00:31:27,660 --> 00:31:29,640 "Well, what do you think we came to you for?" 651 00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:32,160 We came back to the studio, and we just put a bit more... 652 00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:33,640 turned the percussion up a bit. 653 00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:37,160 And we got all the Dead Or Alive tapes out the studio, 654 00:31:37,180 --> 00:31:39,840 we took all the percussion off Dead Or Alive's Spin Me Round 655 00:31:39,860 --> 00:31:42,280 and put it all on Venus. 656 00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:44,800 And we came back and they went, "Yeah, that's it!" 657 00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:46,720 And we went, "Phew!" 658 00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:49,000 659 00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:51,760 660 00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:58,080 661 00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:59,520 662 00:32:02,020 --> 00:32:05,720 I'm your fire 663 00:32:05,740 --> 00:32:07,520 664 00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:11,240 The record has guitar on it. 665 00:32:11,260 --> 00:32:13,280 Guitars are a no-no on dance, 666 00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:16,040 high-energy, northern soul, Boys Town records. 667 00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:18,040 You didn't have guitars, you know... 668 00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:21,320 But that song, coming from the '60s, featured guitars, 669 00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:25,080 and so we, rather than just play the guitar, got Matt to play... 670 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,600 It's a B sus. 671 00:32:27,620 --> 00:32:29,560 HE IMITATES GUITAR 672 00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:32,160 Then we put it into the sampling machine and sampled it, 673 00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:34,400 so it made it sound more electronic. 674 00:32:34,420 --> 00:32:38,040 JANGLY GUITAR 675 00:32:45,980 --> 00:32:47,480 It didn't do that well in the UK. 676 00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:50,200 It only got to number eight or something. 677 00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:54,040 But in the States, this flew out the door. Went to number one. 678 00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:56,360 Venus became, worldwide, number one. 679 00:32:56,380 --> 00:33:00,160 To most people, it was the follow-up to Spin Me Round. 680 00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:03,520 Because Pete had not wanted to do another high-energy record, 681 00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:07,280 so what Pete didn't do, Bananarama did. 682 00:33:10,260 --> 00:33:12,800 The turning point, without a question, was Mel And Kim. 683 00:33:12,820 --> 00:33:15,240 We knew we'd got it right with Mel And Kim. 684 00:33:15,260 --> 00:33:18,320 They gave us the confidence that we needed. 685 00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:22,040 KIM APPLEBY: Mel was in the club, and the producer walked up to her 686 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:24,840 and said to her, "You're beautiful, what do you do?" 687 00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:26,720 She said, "Really, I want to be a singer. 688 00:33:26,740 --> 00:33:29,320 Ancl he said to her, "That's fantastic. 689 00:33:29,340 --> 00:33:32,800 "I'm looking for a singer, but I'm looking for two girls. 690 00:33:32,820 --> 00:33:34,960 "Do you have anyone else you can sing with?" 691 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:36,960 Ancl she said, "Yeah, my sister." 692 00:33:36,980 --> 00:33:38,640 Ancl he was like, "Does she look like you?" 693 00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:40,600 She was like, "Everyone thinks we're twins." 694 00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:42,360 And then from there, we started to do demos. 695 00:33:42,380 --> 00:33:45,160 Mel And Kim had a manager. 696 00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:48,760 And he wanted them to work with some other producer. 697 00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:51,680 I said, "No, we work with Stock, Aitken and Waterman." 698 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:55,000 Mel and I were really excited because they had produced 699 00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:57,720 and written this track for Princess. 700 00:33:57,740 --> 00:33:59,640 We just were convinced it was three brothers, 701 00:33:59,660 --> 00:34:01,320 it was three Black guys that'd clone that. 702 00:34:01,340 --> 00:34:05,800 Ancl down they came. Ancl I imagine our faces... 703 00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:07,160 was a picture. 704 00:34:07,180 --> 00:34:08,840 She couldn't believe that, as it were, 705 00:34:08,860 --> 00:34:13,040 two white guys sitting in a studio had come up with this RandB, 706 00:34:13,060 --> 00:34:16,600 American-sounding song or record. 707 00:34:16,620 --> 00:34:19,080 They just appeared so old. 708 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:23,520 Really kind of not funky, not groovy. 709 00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:27,000 Once they started working together, they just fell in love with them. 710 00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:30,320 Mel And Kim were a little neutron bomb, really. 711 00:34:30,340 --> 00:34:35,240 They were wildly enthusiastic about working in a studio, 712 00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:37,680 wildly enthusiastic about working with us. 713 00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:40,800 Because of Princess doing this RandB soul thing, 714 00:34:40,820 --> 00:34:42,200 Nick had come to us and said 715 00:34:42,220 --> 00:34:44,600 perhaps they could go down a similar route. 716 00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:48,800 And we recorded, or had written, a song called Sisters... 717 00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:51,680 718 00:34:53,660 --> 00:34:56,440 ...which was a bit RandB. 719 00:34:56,460 --> 00:34:58,080 I put them behind a microphone, 720 00:34:58,100 --> 00:34:59,960 and they couldn't sing with headphones on. 721 00:34:59,980 --> 00:35:02,800 It freaked us out, hearing our voices come back, 722 00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:06,120 because we were used to just singing one-on-one to each other. 723 00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:09,400 We spent the clay singing that, and they were really happy. 724 00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:11,160 They said, "Look, we go to the pub after. 725 00:35:11,180 --> 00:35:13,720 "Do you want to come to the pub?" We were like, "Yeah, OK." 726 00:35:13,740 --> 00:35:17,960 So there was this lovely little pub that eventually became our hang-out. 727 00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:21,880 Couple of bottles of lager, and they were away. 728 00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:23,240 They were, you know, fun. 729 00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:26,440 We were falling off the chairs, all of us. 730 00:35:26,460 --> 00:35:28,880 I just think they had never met girls like... 731 00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:30,400 Because we were kind of like... 732 00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:32,760 We were, we were streetwise, we were tough, 733 00:35:32,780 --> 00:35:36,960 but we were also very feminine at the same time. 734 00:35:36,980 --> 00:35:39,160 I turned to Mike and went, "Got it. 735 00:35:39,180 --> 00:35:41,840 "These girls now become our rebels." 736 00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:45,360 Pete said, "Scrap the track, we need something tough, 737 00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:47,600 "something edgy for these girls." 738 00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:49,440 One of the things that Pete recognised, 739 00:35:49,460 --> 00:35:51,440 and probably Matt and Mike did, 740 00:35:51,460 --> 00:35:54,680 was that if you take somebody completely raw and unknown, 741 00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:58,120 then they've got a chance to monk! that 742 00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:01,760 and make that into something the way they see it. 743 00:36:01,780 --> 00:36:04,920 Ancl they were really confident about their own opinion, 744 00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:06,800 which you have to be as a record producer. 745 00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:09,480 You can't sit there going, "Well, what does everyone else think?" 746 00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:13,040 Working-class girls who had had it rough all their life, 747 00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:18,880 and that would give every young girl in Great Britain... 748 00:36:20,740 --> 00:36:22,280 ...something to look forward to. 749 00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:27,280 Ancl we went back in the studio, and up on the monitor was 750 00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:30,080 Showing Out (Get Fresh At The Weekend) - 751 00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:32,120 in brackets. 752 00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:35,640 Ancl I remember Me land I going, "What's showing out? 753 00:36:35,660 --> 00:36:37,000 "What does that even mean?" 754 00:36:37,020 --> 00:36:38,960 I mean, you've got to imagine, 755 00:36:38,980 --> 00:36:43,000 these three guys who were so unlikely, 756 00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:45,800 producing and writing a song called Showing Out, 757 00:36:45,820 --> 00:36:50,720 and coming up with a lyric like that, which they know nothing about. 758 00:36:50,740 --> 00:36:54,360 And it was such a genius lyric and such a genius song, 759 00:36:54,380 --> 00:36:58,080 it was just... Everything was just so unlikely. 760 00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:01,360 So showing out is just showing off. 761 00:37:01,380 --> 00:37:03,120 Which is what they were doing all the time, 762 00:37:03,140 --> 00:37:04,680 they were laughing and giggling. 763 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:07,360 And we recorded on the record, you can hear giggles and laughs, 764 00:37:07,380 --> 00:37:11,040 where you incorporated it because it felt real to do that. 765 00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:13,760 Because we were used to the cans now, 766 00:37:13,780 --> 00:37:17,200 we went into the vocal booth, and we just sang together. 767 00:37:17,220 --> 00:37:21,040 Once they mixed it, which we got on vinyl by October, 768 00:37:21,060 --> 00:37:23,960 we had the 12-inch. 769 00:37:23,980 --> 00:37:27,960 It was a killer track, it's still my favourite Mel And Kim track. 770 00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:33,280 They were sassy enough to carry it off, and it was absolutely perfect. 771 00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:36,080 772 00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:40,760 773 00:37:40,780 --> 00:37:45,000 The dance routine, we learnt in my living room in London Fields. 774 00:37:45,020 --> 00:37:48,360 We'd stand in my living room, and it was all like, 775 00:37:48,380 --> 00:37:50,920 "OK, and then you turn. OK." 776 00:37:50,940 --> 00:37:53,480 It was all... all clone at home. 777 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:55,400 778 00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:57,320 779 00:37:57,340 --> 00:38:00,400 780 00:38:00,420 --> 00:38:02,960 781 00:38:02,980 --> 00:38:04,080 782 00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:08,440 We charted at somewhere in the 30s, 783 00:38:08,460 --> 00:38:11,520 and then we got a Radio 1 play list, and then we got Top Of The Pops. 784 00:38:11,540 --> 00:38:14,640 785 00:38:14,660 --> 00:38:15,680 786 00:38:19,540 --> 00:38:22,560 787 00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:23,800 788 00:38:23,820 --> 00:38:24,960 Yeah, top five. 789 00:38:24,980 --> 00:38:26,680 They were the first new artist 790 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:30,920 that Stock, Aitken and Waterman worked with from scratch. 791 00:38:30,940 --> 00:38:34,880 Working with those two girls and what we wanted to do, 792 00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:37,960 we became a group. Three boys and two girls. 793 00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:39,760 Showing Out got to number three. 794 00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:42,760 We thought it was going to do number one because it was different enough, 795 00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:45,280 and it didn't, and I think that was a bit of a disappointment. 796 00:38:45,300 --> 00:38:48,200 I think we just wanted to make a more poppy record 797 00:38:48,220 --> 00:38:49,760 and Respectable was it. 798 00:38:49,780 --> 00:38:51,760 Respectable, for God's sake! 799 00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:54,360 I think we knew we had a winner then, at that point. 800 00:38:54,380 --> 00:38:57,600 Once we got the vocals down. And the girls just sang it brilliantly. 801 00:38:57,620 --> 00:39:01,640 It was as if it was, you know, as much their composition as ours. 802 00:39:01,660 --> 00:39:03,920 When we're singing the track, it's just very straight, 803 00:39:03,940 --> 00:39:06,760 none of the effects are there. There's no... 804 00:39:06,780 --> 00:39:08,280 805 00:39:08,300 --> 00:39:10,280 It's just... 806 00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:12,920 And then later, all the magic happens. 807 00:39:12,940 --> 00:39:16,480 You're always looking for new sounds, new ideas, 808 00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:19,680 new ways to use technology and looking for new technology. 809 00:39:19,700 --> 00:39:24,160 This thing called a Publison, a French sampling machine, 810 00:39:24,180 --> 00:39:25,920 came to our attention. 811 00:39:25,940 --> 00:39:29,920 Which meant you could play the vocals back at various pitches. 812 00:39:29,940 --> 00:39:33,440 It's the start of the chorus, "Take our leave us..." So it goes... 813 00:39:33,460 --> 00:39:37,440 T-t-t-t-tay, tay. 814 00:39:37,460 --> 00:39:40,720 Nick East hated it. 815 00:39:40,740 --> 00:39:43,680 I was worried it was a little bit too commercial. 816 00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:46,640 And the "tay-tay-tays" worried me. 817 00:39:46,660 --> 00:39:48,520 Sol rang Pete and said, "I love it, 818 00:39:48,540 --> 00:39:50,720 "but can you take out the tay-tay-tays?" 819 00:39:50,740 --> 00:39:53,680 I said to Mike Stock, "They don't like..." 820 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:56,640 "They can't take it off." "What?" 821 00:39:56,660 --> 00:40:00,240 "Can't take it off. Take that off, I'm out of here." 822 00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:03,000 I'd never heard him say that before. Ever. 823 00:40:03,020 --> 00:40:05,200 "We have the right to stand our ground, 824 00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:07,680 "and I'm telling you, that is important." 825 00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:10,520 The one thing I'd say about Pete was that he never once... 826 00:40:11,740 --> 00:40:16,280 "would criticise or, in any sense, denigrate our songs, 827 00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:18,200 or the songs or the records that we made. 828 00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:21,840 That night, I flew to Amsterdam with Mel And Kim, 829 00:40:21,860 --> 00:40:24,360 and they were doing a big TV show there. 830 00:40:24,380 --> 00:40:26,880 Ancl it used to be a show called Countdown. 831 00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:29,160 It was huge, it was their Top Of The Pops. 832 00:40:29,180 --> 00:40:30,760 What do you think about Bruce Willis? 833 00:40:30,780 --> 00:40:32,120 I think he's lovely. 834 00:40:32,140 --> 00:40:33,880 Yeah, he's gorgeous. Really, huh? 835 00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:37,640 It was the first airing of Respectable. 836 00:40:37,660 --> 00:40:39,600 And, like Top Of The Pops, 837 00:40:39,620 --> 00:40:43,160 you do two, three, four, sometimes five takes. 838 00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:47,080 T-t-t-t-tay... 839 00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:50,440 And by the end of the second take, 840 00:40:50,460 --> 00:40:52,320 the whole studio was singing "hand-hand-hand". 841 00:40:52,340 --> 00:40:56,560 OK, I got that wrong, that works! Sol rang Pete. 842 00:40:56,580 --> 00:40:58,800 T-t-t-t-tay... 843 00:40:58,820 --> 00:41:01,920 "For Christ's sake, don't take that tay-tay-tay off the start! 844 00:41:01,940 --> 00:41:04,520 "We've got a club here in Holland going nuts about it." 845 00:41:04,540 --> 00:41:08,320 T-t-t-t-tay 846 00:41:08,340 --> 00:41:11,800 Only please believe us 847 00:41:11,820 --> 00:41:16,040 Respectable 848 00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:19,680 But you'll never change us 849 00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:23,920 Respectable. 850 00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:26,720 The minute that video got shown on Saturday morning television, 851 00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:29,480 it was all over. It was Mel And Kim wall-to-wall. 852 00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:31,240 They were your girls next door. 853 00:41:31,260 --> 00:41:35,160 In the '80s, there was a lot of depression, people were broke, 854 00:41:35,180 --> 00:41:37,760 a lot of people on the dole. And then Mel And Kim came along. 855 00:41:37,780 --> 00:41:40,560 They were like a... a breath of fresh air. 856 00:41:40,580 --> 00:41:45,200 Just really fun, colourful, bright, young, inspirational. 857 00:41:45,220 --> 00:41:47,600 It was phenomenal. 858 00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:52,120 I mean, it sold something like about 750,000 copies in the UK. 859 00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:56,360 We were like a little team, and we lived in a little bubble. 860 00:41:56,380 --> 00:42:00,240 So we would regularly go to clubs with Mel And Kim. 861 00:42:00,260 --> 00:42:03,880 We hung out with Mel And Kim. It was good times. 862 00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:08,480 And Mel's favourite saying was FLM. 863 00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:10,440 You'd ask her, "How are you?" "FLM." 864 00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:11,880 "Is that all right?" FLM. 865 00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:13,680 "What do you think?" FLM. 866 00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:15,640 We were always walking around the studio going, 867 00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:17,480 "Yeah, BLEEP lovely, mate. 868 00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:18,960 That was BLEEP lovely, mate. 869 00:42:18,980 --> 00:42:20,960 I remember we recorded it and Mike said, 870 00:42:20,980 --> 00:42:23,120 "We can't call it FLM, for God's sake." 871 00:42:23,140 --> 00:42:26,040 872 00:42:27,620 --> 00:42:29,160 Fun, love and money. 873 00:42:29,180 --> 00:42:32,920 Here's the solution 874 00:42:32,940 --> 00:42:36,880 875 00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:40,760 If you don't take chances 876 00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:44,400 877 00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:46,600 We always recorded all the laughter 878 00:42:46,620 --> 00:42:49,800 and all the chat between Mel and Kim, it's all on tape. 879 00:42:49,820 --> 00:42:52,240 Because they were funny, the pair of them were funny. 880 00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:55,240 And it made the records very different from anybody else. 881 00:42:55,260 --> 00:42:58,160 They'd just get us to talk to each other with no track. 882 00:42:58,180 --> 00:43:02,560 Mike would just throw questions at us and say, "You got a boyfriend?" 883 00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:05,280 You now, Mel might've said, "Boyfriend? Boyfriends are boring." 884 00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:06,360 Ancl then he kept it. 885 00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:10,160 Those songs sound exactly like the way Mel and Kim were. 886 00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:12,040 That's them. A snapshot. 887 00:43:12,060 --> 00:43:15,520 That album was written around our personalities, and for me, 888 00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:21,080 that's why I think our tracks have a slightly different vibe to them. 889 00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:23,680 I thought we were on to a real winner here. 890 00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:29,080 The wind was taken out of our sails. We heard that Mel wasn't very well. 891 00:43:39,540 --> 00:43:42,600 Mel had been kind of complaining about back problems. 892 00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:44,800 She kept saying her lower back was giving her pain, 893 00:43:44,820 --> 00:43:46,440 and we just put it down to, 894 00:43:46,460 --> 00:43:49,720 we were heavily kind of being choreographed at that time. 895 00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:52,960 The whole thing was routines, and it was a hectic schedule. 896 00:43:52,980 --> 00:43:56,240 We'd gone to japan, which was a nightmare 897 00:43:56,260 --> 00:43:59,960 because it was like a 16-hour flight. 898 00:43:59,980 --> 00:44:02,600 Ancl she was in absolute agony. 899 00:44:02,620 --> 00:44:05,600 By the time we got there, all the promo they had set up, 900 00:44:05,620 --> 00:44:07,000 we couldn't do nothing. 901 00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:10,880 Ancl by this time, I was thinking, "OK, something's not right here." 902 00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:12,440 Ancl eventually we flew back. 903 00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:14,960 She went to Barks for tests, 904 00:44:14,980 --> 00:44:17,240 and then it came back saying she had cancer. 905 00:44:17,260 --> 00:44:19,640 I can't tell you... 906 00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:23,120 Obviously, for Kim, erm, 907 00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:27,480 her sister, her baby sister is so ill. 908 00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:32,520 We had FLM out, and there was absolutely no promo going on for it. 909 00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:36,360 And I was adamant that I wasn't going to do it, and I didn't. 910 00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:38,400 Because I was there looking after my sister, 911 00:44:38,420 --> 00:44:42,240 and it was very important for me that we went through this together. 912 00:44:42,260 --> 00:44:44,680 They gave her chemo, and you know, 913 00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:47,360 and she put on a huge amount of weight. 914 00:44:47,380 --> 00:44:48,920 Obviously lost all her hair. 915 00:44:48,940 --> 00:44:51,400 And Mel was adamant that she didn't want anyone to know. 916 00:44:51,420 --> 00:44:52,920 Cos we were palming them off, 917 00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:55,240 saying that she had hurt her back in dancing. 918 00:44:55,260 --> 00:44:59,280 Ancl that worked for about, I don't know, six months. 919 00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:02,000 After a while, the press got suspicious. 920 00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:06,440 So it turns out that a reporter had shown up at her house 921 00:45:06,460 --> 00:45:10,880 and told her that she was from the hospital, and she was a nurse. 922 00:45:10,900 --> 00:45:12,360 That's how low the press is. 923 00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:15,080 Then it all came out. Yeah, it was... 924 00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:17,040 It was a very hard time. 925 00:45:17,060 --> 00:45:21,720 We were talking a year and a half of just hospitals. 926 00:45:21,740 --> 00:45:26,280 She'd had all her chemo, and she was... 927 00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:32,080 Her hair was starting to grow back, she was slowly coming back to Mel. 928 00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:34,240 And she said, "You know what would be great, mate? 929 00:45:34,260 --> 00:45:36,280 "If we were back in the studio." 930 00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:39,000 We obviously banned everybody from the studio that night. 931 00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:43,200 We didn't think she wanted people around, but she did. 932 00:45:43,220 --> 00:45:44,760 She said, "Where are all the boys?" 933 00:45:44,780 --> 00:45:47,360 We said, we didn't think you'd want to see 'em. "Get 'em all back." 934 00:45:47,380 --> 00:45:52,840 She was bandaged up, erm, got protective around her spine. 935 00:45:52,860 --> 00:45:54,400 Ancl we had to sit her down 936 00:45:54,420 --> 00:45:57,760 on a stool behind the microphone to sing. 937 00:45:57,780 --> 00:46:00,320 It was very, very, very difficult. 938 00:46:00,340 --> 00:46:01,520 Very difficult. 939 00:46:01,540 --> 00:46:03,280 They were great with her, 940 00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:07,120 and it was like the old days, it was like being back again. 941 00:46:07,140 --> 00:46:09,400 She'd have died in the studio if we'd let her. 942 00:46:09,420 --> 00:46:13,640 And the plan was, I went in first to do a guide vocal. 943 00:46:13,660 --> 00:46:15,840 And he'd given us this song, and it just... 944 00:46:15,860 --> 00:46:18,880 I wasn't feeling it. it just wasn't working. 945 00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:21,920 And then Mike disappeared and came back with That's The Way It ls. 946 00:46:21,940 --> 00:46:25,640 And again, written about our situation. 947 00:46:25,660 --> 00:46:28,160 948 00:46:28,180 --> 00:46:29,840 949 00:46:29,860 --> 00:46:33,640 950 00:46:33,660 --> 00:46:34,920 That's the way it is. 951 00:46:42,140 --> 00:46:44,920 And I thought... 952 00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:46,640 That... You know... 953 00:46:49,420 --> 00:46:52,160 That was it. It... It... 954 00:46:54,380 --> 00:46:58,080 It did sum it up. There was nothing we could do. 955 00:46:58,100 --> 00:47:02,160 That was it, it was the way it is, and you can't get round it. 956 00:47:02,180 --> 00:47:04,640 Looking back, we must've been very fresh at the time. 957 00:47:04,660 --> 00:47:06,840 We didn't think it because we were just being us. 958 00:47:06,860 --> 00:47:10,760 I believe that, if we'd got round to the second album, 959 00:47:10,780 --> 00:47:13,080 I think those girls could have taken the world. 960 00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:15,560 I think they could have been Madonna or Jackson. 961 00:47:15,580 --> 00:47:18,120 It was a great time. We left our mark. 962 00:47:18,140 --> 00:47:20,400 People still care, which is incredible. 963 00:47:20,420 --> 00:47:23,880 And, you know, Mel lives on in the music. 964 00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:39,080 When I first met Pete, it was, without question, 965 00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:42,000 a defining moment for me in my life, my career. 966 00:47:42,020 --> 00:47:45,240 I had just started a tiny little record label. 967 00:47:45,260 --> 00:47:49,320 I had an artist, I heard a record they'd made by Hazell Dean. 968 00:47:49,340 --> 00:47:52,200 And I loved this record, and I wanted to know who produced it, 969 00:47:52,220 --> 00:47:55,040 and I tracked them down to this place in the Borough. 970 00:47:55,060 --> 00:47:58,200 And I came in thinking I was doing them a favour 971 00:47:58,220 --> 00:48:01,000 because I had a record I was just about to release. 972 00:48:01,020 --> 00:48:03,760 So he puts the record on, plays it for 20 seconds and goes, 973 00:48:03,780 --> 00:48:05,400 "That's a hit, mate." 974 00:48:05,420 --> 00:48:07,640 We had a massive hit with So Macho. 975 00:48:07,660 --> 00:48:09,320 It sold about a million copies. 976 00:48:09,340 --> 00:48:11,640 That left us with a problem because we needed another song 977 00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:12,840 and we only had one song. 978 00:48:12,860 --> 00:48:16,240 He turned round to me, and he went, "What are you doing here?" 979 00:48:16,260 --> 00:48:20,080 And I went, "I want you to give me a record for my artist." 980 00:48:20,100 --> 00:48:21,920 And he went, "I'm too busy." 981 00:48:21,940 --> 00:48:24,120 And I went, "Doing what?" 982 00:48:24,140 --> 00:48:30,160 And he just gave me this awful wink, like, "Watch." 983 00:48:30,180 --> 00:48:32,520 I said, "I've no idea what you're talking about." 984 00:48:32,540 --> 00:48:35,520 And then it just went... boom. 985 00:48:35,540 --> 00:48:37,640 986 00:48:39,820 --> 00:48:42,680 987 00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:45,320 988 00:48:45,340 --> 00:48:47,200 989 00:48:47,220 --> 00:48:49,080 990 00:48:51,100 --> 00:48:53,200 991 00:48:55,460 --> 00:48:57,840 992 00:48:59,740 --> 00:49:02,240 993 00:49:04,420 --> 00:49:07,360 994 00:49:07,380 --> 00:49:11,560 Talk it over... 995 00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:14,360 996 00:49:14,380 --> 00:49:17,040 Guilty 997 00:49:17,060 --> 00:49:19,520 998 00:49:19,540 --> 00:49:22,000 999 00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:25,040 1000 00:49:25,060 --> 00:49:28,160 1001 00:49:28,180 --> 00:49:31,320 Singles in those days, you know, you had a number one, 1002 00:49:31,340 --> 00:49:33,400 number two single just in in the UK, 1003 00:49:33,420 --> 00:49:37,600 you're talking about a million, million and a half copies, 1004 00:49:37,620 --> 00:49:40,520 physical copies sold just in the UK. 1005 00:49:40,540 --> 00:49:42,360 Then you've got the rest of the world. 1006 00:49:42,380 --> 00:49:44,280 There was a lot of money sloshing around. 1007 00:49:44,300 --> 00:49:48,080 Stock, Aitken and Waterman were forever being sniped at 1008 00:49:48,100 --> 00:49:49,760 by the music press. 1009 00:49:49,780 --> 00:49:51,520 The cool music press would go, 1010 00:49:51,540 --> 00:49:54,320 "Oh, it's another Stock, Aitken and Waterman 1011 00:49:54,340 --> 00:49:56,280 "manufactured bit of cheese." 1012 00:49:56,300 --> 00:50:01,720 Suggesting that what we did was easy, or rubbish. 1013 00:50:01,740 --> 00:50:05,400 Radio didn't like what Stock, Aitken and Waterman were making. 1014 00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:07,680 They hated their records. 1015 00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:10,840 Let's get that very plain. We were hated. 1016 00:50:10,860 --> 00:50:12,560 They were really unhappy. 1017 00:50:12,580 --> 00:50:16,320 Without radio, Pete and Mike and Matt kept having all these hits. 1018 00:50:16,340 --> 00:50:20,080 You've got three lads that took on the world and made a fortune. 1019 00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:23,880 You know, we were David, we had a catapult. 1020 00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:25,920 We didn't have artillery. 1021 00:50:25,940 --> 00:50:28,480 Some of the stuff we did, yeah, it was straight bubble gum, 1022 00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:30,840 but the vast majority wasn't. It might sound simple, 1023 00:50:30,860 --> 00:50:32,440 but there's a lot of artistry involved 1024 00:50:32,460 --> 00:50:34,480 in making it sound simple. 1025 00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:38,120 There was a snobbery towards them. Of course. 1026 00:50:38,140 --> 00:50:42,000 The second you become so successful, 1027 00:50:42,020 --> 00:50:44,040 there is a backlash. 1028 00:50:44,060 --> 00:50:46,040 I think it was the fact that they were occupying 1029 00:50:46,060 --> 00:50:47,560 the top ten every other week. 1030 00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:49,640 But at the end of the day, 1031 00:50:49,660 --> 00:50:53,960 you can't deny how brilliant these guys were. 1032 00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:56,400 We went to the Royal Albert Hall to collect an award 1033 00:50:56,420 --> 00:51:02,480 and the bunch of Djs with funny hats and whistles pelted us. 1034 00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:06,480 They threw cans of beer, cans of piss and anything else at us. 1035 00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:10,040 Ancl I got hit there with a can of something that smelt horrible. 1036 00:51:10,060 --> 00:51:14,360 That's why Pete wanted to do Roadblock the way that he did it. 1037 00:51:14,380 --> 00:51:16,560 To get back at the Djs. 1038 00:51:16,580 --> 00:51:19,120 Mike went off and recorded this bass and drum pattern 1039 00:51:19,140 --> 00:51:22,200 with a chord thing on it and presented that to me. 1040 00:51:22,220 --> 00:51:24,440 MUSIC: 'Roadblock' 1041 00:51:26,380 --> 00:51:28,200 Sol put a drum loop down. 1042 00:51:28,220 --> 00:51:32,840 I put a... a bass line onto it that was a bit weird. 1043 00:51:32,860 --> 00:51:35,480 I was driving home, and Gary Crowley was on the radio. 1044 00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:38,280 He was saying, get down there, it's gonna be a roadblock. 1045 00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:40,280 What a great title, we'll have that for this song. 1046 00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:41,480 We'll call it Roadblock. 1047 00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:44,840 We got Lucy, Nicky and all the girls from the office. We got Pete in. 1048 00:51:44,860 --> 00:51:49,040 And we all went behind the mic and sang, "Roadblock, roadblock." 1049 00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:51,880 1050 00:51:51,900 --> 00:51:55,400 Roadblock 1051 00:51:57,220 --> 00:52:02,120 Roadblock... 1052 00:52:02,140 --> 00:52:04,200 We put a load of crowd noises on it. 1053 00:52:04,220 --> 00:52:06,360 Made it into a party record, basically. 1054 00:52:06,380 --> 00:52:08,840 They didn't tell people who it was. 1055 00:52:08,860 --> 00:52:13,920 Because they didn't want their name to put people off playing it. 1056 00:52:13,940 --> 00:52:16,760 And all the cool radio Djs were playing that, 1057 00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:20,280 you know, like, so happy to have some decent music to play, 1058 00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:22,600 instead of that Stock Aitken Waterman rubbish. 1059 00:52:22,620 --> 00:52:24,200 A particular magazine 1060 00:52:24,220 --> 00:52:27,280 was always reviewing Bananarama singles, 1061 00:52:27,300 --> 00:52:29,640 and the only reason they wanted to review them 1062 00:52:29,660 --> 00:52:31,960 was so they could slate them. 1063 00:52:31,980 --> 00:52:34,120 But they were the first to review Roadblock, 1064 00:52:34,140 --> 00:52:36,000 not knowing it was us, 1065 00:52:36,020 --> 00:52:40,840 and they said, that's the best goddamn dance record of 1987. 1066 00:52:40,860 --> 00:52:42,840 1067 00:52:42,860 --> 00:52:46,520 It was a bit of a spoof, but I think it got to 13. 1068 00:52:46,540 --> 00:52:49,320 Ancl of all the tracks we made, 1069 00:52:49,340 --> 00:52:51,120 I probably hear that most often these clays. 1070 00:52:51,140 --> 00:52:53,320 When we all found out that, actually, 1071 00:52:53,340 --> 00:52:55,520 Roadblock was Stock Aitken and Waterman, 1072 00:52:55,540 --> 00:52:59,480 I went, "Fair dues. Fair dues. It's a really good track." 1073 00:52:59,500 --> 00:53:01,240 1074 00:53:03,420 --> 00:53:05,920 I had a story in the newspaper, 1075 00:53:05,940 --> 00:53:09,200 because the boy who'd starred in one of my music videos, 1076 00:53:09,220 --> 00:53:10,720 I'd started to date him. 1077 00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:15,080 So the newspapers were saying, "Oh, Sinitta has a toy boy." 1078 00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:19,320 I got this phone call saying, "I've got your hit, mate." 1079 00:53:19,340 --> 00:53:21,920 And I went, "Which one?" He went, "Your hit for Sinitta." 1080 00:53:21,940 --> 00:53:25,160 So I got in my car, drove down to the studio, 1081 00:53:25,180 --> 00:53:28,160 and he played me the bridge, actually, of the song. 1082 00:53:28,180 --> 00:53:30,240 And it was enough to go, 1083 00:53:30,260 --> 00:53:34,080 "Right, I've got to get her in the studio as quickly as possible." 1084 00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:36,720 I remember thinking that I was gonna be treated like a star, 1085 00:53:36,740 --> 00:53:38,640 because I'd had a hit. 1086 00:53:38,660 --> 00:53:42,880 And I got there, and to my horror, Mike Stock is on the piano, 1087 00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:45,200 and the first thing he does is start playing scales 1088 00:53:45,220 --> 00:53:47,840 and hitting notes and saying, "Sing this note". 1089 00:53:47,860 --> 00:53:49,760 And I was like, "It's OK, I'm already warmed up. 1090 00:53:49,780 --> 00:53:51,440 "I was singing in the car on the way here." 1091 00:53:51,460 --> 00:53:54,040 "No, I just want to see if you can sing in tune or not." 1092 00:53:54,060 --> 00:53:58,320 And I remember thinking, "Right, this is gonna be interesting." 1093 00:53:58,340 --> 00:54:01,000 The biggest anomaly of all 1094 00:54:01,020 --> 00:54:03,600 of the way that we worked is that Mike and I, 1095 00:54:03,620 --> 00:54:06,480 we had never met the artist that we were going to work with 1096 00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:09,000 until the moment the studio door opened. 1097 00:54:09,020 --> 00:54:11,200 Most producers will go out to dinner. 1098 00:54:11,220 --> 00:54:13,720 There'll be a lot of schmoozing and getting to know you. 1099 00:54:13,740 --> 00:54:15,680 "It's all gonna be fine. Isn't it gonna be great? 1100 00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:17,240 "We're really looking forward... " 1101 00:54:17,260 --> 00:54:19,480 With us, it was just very cold and bang. 1102 00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:22,000 "Sing the line about, you know, you want everyone to know." 1103 00:54:22,020 --> 00:54:25,520 "OK, I'll sing that." And he said, "OK, good, well done. 1104 00:54:25,540 --> 00:54:27,720 "That's the quickest we've ever recorded a track." 1105 00:54:27,740 --> 00:54:29,400 And I said, "Well, we haven't sung it yet." 1106 00:54:29,420 --> 00:54:32,040 Like, you had to do one perfect take in the old days. 1107 00:54:32,060 --> 00:54:35,200 But they sort of, a line here, a line there, a line, a line, 1108 00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:38,240 and then they kind of just put it all together like a puzzle. 1109 00:54:38,260 --> 00:54:41,000 As soon as the tape rolled, she was right in the groove. 1110 00:54:41,020 --> 00:54:42,840 Squarely in the groove, fantastic. 1111 00:54:42,860 --> 00:54:44,560 Double track it. 1112 00:54:45,980 --> 00:54:48,200 "Shall we go to the pub?" 1113 00:54:48,220 --> 00:54:50,160 And I said to Simon, "We haven't done the track." 1114 00:54:50,180 --> 00:54:52,320 He said, "Don't worry about it, just say thank you." 1115 00:54:52,340 --> 00:54:54,720 A week later, they sent us Toy Boy. 1116 00:54:54,740 --> 00:54:56,440 1117 00:54:56,460 --> 00:54:58,360 1118 00:54:58,380 --> 00:55:02,200 1119 00:55:02,220 --> 00:55:07,160 Simon, who was so dedicated to his passion of hits, 1120 00:55:07,180 --> 00:55:09,800 you knew that when you gave him a record like Toy Boy, 1121 00:55:09,820 --> 00:55:13,400 he would do his best to make it a hit. 1122 00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:17,280 Toy boy 1123 00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:20,200 1124 00:55:20,220 --> 00:55:22,000 1125 00:55:22,020 --> 00:55:23,560 You've got to remember, at this point, 1126 00:55:23,580 --> 00:55:25,760 I had no money, I had nothing. 1127 00:55:25,780 --> 00:55:28,960 I had one artist, and I really did believe 1128 00:55:28,980 --> 00:55:32,680 that the only people who would give her those records 1129 00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:34,480 were Stock Aitken and Waterman. 1130 00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:36,400 I knew even there it was them. 1131 00:55:36,420 --> 00:55:40,080 It was very exciting, erm, kind of surreal. 1132 00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:44,080 Cos I've now been around the world. I've performed at the Tokyo Dome. 1133 00:55:44,100 --> 00:55:46,920 You know, I've knocked Madonna off the top of the charts. 1134 00:55:46,940 --> 00:55:49,080 You know, I'm now Whitney Houston. 1135 00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:56,280 Pete had this... amazing knack 1136 00:55:56,300 --> 00:55:59,000 of finding somebody 1137 00:55:59,020 --> 00:56:02,200 who would not necessarily look like a star. 1138 00:56:02,220 --> 00:56:04,080 But they had a good voice. 1139 00:56:04,100 --> 00:56:07,120 He could see the way that he would be able 1140 00:56:07,140 --> 00:56:10,320 to successfully bring them to market. 1141 00:56:10,340 --> 00:56:14,720 The first time I was in the presence of Pete Waterman, let's say, 1142 00:56:14,740 --> 00:56:17,360 he'd come up to see a showcase 1143 00:56:17,380 --> 00:56:19,200 that our then-managers had put together. 1144 00:56:21,020 --> 00:56:22,720 Then came the third group. 1145 00:56:22,740 --> 00:56:24,360 They were called FBI. 1146 00:56:26,740 --> 00:56:29,120 I started as the drummer in that band. 1147 00:56:29,140 --> 00:56:31,840 And then I kind of progressed into being the singer. 1148 00:56:33,460 --> 00:56:37,360 1149 00:56:37,380 --> 00:56:39,400 I couldn't take my eyes off him. 1150 00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:42,640 1151 00:56:42,660 --> 00:56:46,480 A former girlfriend of Pete Waterman's, she'd seen him. 1152 00:56:47,700 --> 00:56:49,520 Ancl she said to me, 1153 00:56:49,540 --> 00:56:53,080 his voice gave her the... 1154 00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:55,640 got her all wobbly. 1155 00:56:55,660 --> 00:56:58,800 I'm just trying to put it in a better way than that. 1156 00:56:58,820 --> 00:57:00,320 I don't know what to say, really. 1157 00:57:00,340 --> 00:57:01,800 I'll take that kid. 1158 00:57:01,820 --> 00:57:03,440 I'll sign him as an artist. 1159 00:57:03,460 --> 00:57:05,440 I remember he had red leather trousers, 1160 00:57:05,460 --> 00:57:07,360 and we all knew that he had ajag as well, 1161 00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:09,080 because the jag was outside. 1162 00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:12,040 And we're all thinking, "Red leather trousers, jag, music business. 1163 00:57:12,060 --> 00:57:14,840 "This is the way to go." 1164 00:57:14,860 --> 00:57:18,480 We've got him a youth opportunity training program me. A YOP. 1165 00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:22,000 And he's gonna get 20 quid a week, we had to pay him 20 quid a week. 1166 00:57:22,020 --> 00:57:26,240 I ended up being a tea boy at Stock Aitken Waterman's place. 1167 00:57:26,260 --> 00:57:29,280 But it was amazing. It was like a really great apprenticeship. 1168 00:57:29,300 --> 00:57:31,720 And that's what he did, he came down and served us tea 1169 00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:34,760 and sandwiches for a good year, I think, 1170 00:57:34,780 --> 00:57:37,200 before we actually worked with him. 1171 00:57:37,220 --> 00:57:39,120 There is only me that makes decent tea down here. 1172 00:57:39,140 --> 00:57:40,760 Somebody's got to do it, you know. 1173 00:57:40,780 --> 00:57:44,080 He was a singer and an artist that Pete wanted to develop. 1174 00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:46,360 But the rest of the building weren't told that. 1175 00:57:46,380 --> 00:57:49,280 And he stayed with me in Crouch End in my flat. 1176 00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:51,760 So became sort of flatmates. 1177 00:57:51,780 --> 00:57:55,200 I used to go into the studio every single day with him in the morning. 1178 00:57:55,220 --> 00:57:57,480 We'd get up, we'd have a cup of tea. 1179 00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:59,760 We'd jump in the car, and off we'd go. 1180 00:57:59,780 --> 00:58:02,840 And he had a huge massive big '80s phone. 1181 00:58:02,860 --> 00:58:05,040 He'd be screaming and shouting at people. 1182 00:58:05,060 --> 00:58:09,000 I don't think I ever saw Pete where he wasn't on it. 1183 00:58:09,020 --> 00:58:12,640 I don't think I ever saw him where he was just chilled. 1184 00:58:12,660 --> 00:58:15,360 He was always chasing the dream. 1185 00:58:15,380 --> 00:58:19,080 Rick was around Bananarama and Dead Or Alive. 1186 00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:20,680 He just was part of the team. 1187 00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:22,840 So I was sitting at the desk in the morning, 1188 00:58:22,860 --> 00:58:25,040 preparing for them to make 1189 00:58:25,060 --> 00:58:28,960 You Spin Me Round or, you know, Respectable. 1190 00:58:28,980 --> 00:58:31,120 I played table tennis with those guys. 1191 00:58:31,140 --> 00:58:33,200 When I think about that, 1192 00:58:33,220 --> 00:58:35,800 there's so many things about their building and their set-up 1193 00:58:35,820 --> 00:58:39,080 that I had no reference, so I just thought, "Well, it's normal." 1194 00:58:39,100 --> 00:58:41,280 But it obviously was not normal. 1195 00:58:41,300 --> 00:58:43,640 It was not normal in any way, shape or form. 1196 00:58:43,660 --> 00:58:46,920 You've got to understand we had a great staff. 1197 00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:48,840 And our staff were family. 1198 00:58:48,860 --> 00:58:50,440 So Rick was family. 1199 00:58:50,460 --> 00:58:53,080 There was also the side of it where 1200 00:58:53,100 --> 00:58:56,680 they went to the pub every night - and I mean every night. 1201 00:58:56,700 --> 00:58:59,080 They were gonna talk shop, they were gonna talk business. 1202 00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:00,680 They were gonna talk about the records 1203 00:59:00,700 --> 00:59:02,280 and probably talk about the artists. 1204 00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:04,560 I was kind of allowed to sit with them. 1205 00:59:04,580 --> 00:59:07,400 Ancl it was only some months later when Pete said, 1206 00:59:07,420 --> 00:59:11,040 "Actually, Rick's here to develop as an artist and as a writer." 1207 00:59:11,060 --> 00:59:13,960 Ancl we started helping Rick and working with him. 1208 00:59:13,980 --> 00:59:17,520 He has a baritone. 1209 00:59:17,540 --> 00:59:20,160 But when he reaches the high notes, 1210 00:59:20,180 --> 00:59:23,840 it's committed and full and accurate. 1211 00:59:23,860 --> 00:59:26,280 Ancl I thought, "We need to make a song 1212 00:59:26,300 --> 00:59:28,600 "that will show that voice off." 1213 00:59:28,620 --> 00:59:31,960 Peter had come up with this title, Never Gonna Give You Up 1214 00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:33,360 just to get the starting point. 1215 00:59:33,380 --> 00:59:35,720 We were just shouting lines to each other. 1216 00:59:35,740 --> 00:59:37,880 Ancl after about five minutes of that, Mike says, 1217 00:59:37,900 --> 00:59:39,400 "Great, I've got that, fantastic." 1218 00:59:39,420 --> 00:59:41,000 Then we sat down and wrote the verses. 1219 00:59:41,020 --> 00:59:43,800 When you're laying a master down on anybody's vocal, 1220 00:59:43,820 --> 00:59:46,920 you're putting down something that's never been put down before, 1221 00:59:46,940 --> 00:59:49,360 and sometimes, you've got to do it note by note. 1222 00:59:49,380 --> 00:59:53,000 Mike was pretty tough, I think, in terms of getting you 1223 00:59:53,020 --> 00:59:55,200 to do the vocals the way he wanted them. 1224 00:59:55,220 --> 00:59:58,960 1225 00:59:58,980 --> 01:00:02,880 And so do I... 1226 01:00:02,900 --> 01:00:05,080 And he had a certain thing in the way 1227 01:00:05,100 --> 01:00:07,760 that he wanted the vocals to be. 1228 01:00:07,780 --> 01:00:11,080 And all good producers do, and I've come to realise that. 1229 01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:13,080 But as a 21-year-old, 20-year-old kid, 1230 01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:15,760 I thought he was a bit of a tough nut, to be honest. 1231 01:00:15,780 --> 01:00:17,600 But he kind of had to be. 1232 01:00:17,620 --> 01:00:20,640 I was very inexperienced. I didn't really know what I was doing. 1233 01:00:20,660 --> 01:00:24,600 Peter came in and said, "By the way, how's that Rick Astley track going?" 1234 01:00:24,620 --> 01:00:28,120 Ancl we said, "Well, we seem to have hit a bit of a brick wall." 1235 01:00:28,140 --> 01:00:29,880 Ancl the reason it wasn't working 1236 01:00:29,900 --> 01:00:32,240 was that Rick's voice was dragging the track back. 1237 01:00:32,260 --> 01:00:34,560 Because it's so big and so all-encompassing, 1238 01:00:34,580 --> 01:00:37,520 and so powerful that there was no funk in it. 1239 01:00:37,540 --> 01:00:39,160 There was no rhythm, there was no groove. 1240 01:00:40,260 --> 01:00:43,720 We found a track that was out at the time, 1241 01:00:43,740 --> 01:00:45,800 it was a sort of house music track 1242 01:00:45,820 --> 01:00:48,320 that just happened to be in the same key, as well, weirdly. 1243 01:00:48,340 --> 01:00:51,160 We basically grafted that rhythm track onto what we had, 1244 01:00:51,180 --> 01:00:52,720 and suddenly, it worked. 1245 01:00:52,740 --> 01:00:56,080 It was just like, "Wow, where did that come from?" 1246 01:00:56,100 --> 01:00:58,520 1247 01:00:58,540 --> 01:01:00,720 1248 01:01:00,740 --> 01:01:04,280 And desert you... 1249 01:01:04,300 --> 01:01:07,240 I mean, it's so difficult for me to talk about that song, 1250 01:01:07,260 --> 01:01:09,440 because it's literally part of my DNA. 1251 01:01:09,460 --> 01:01:12,560 And hurt you... 1252 01:01:12,580 --> 01:01:15,360 That record is the absolute turning point 1253 01:01:15,380 --> 01:01:16,960 of everything in my life, 1254 01:01:16,980 --> 01:01:19,480 and so I'm pretty emotional about it, even today. 1255 01:01:19,500 --> 01:01:21,920 I'm still unbelievably grateful for it. 1256 01:01:21,940 --> 01:01:25,200 When people saw Rick for the first time, they were shocked. 1257 01:01:25,220 --> 01:01:28,280 I think people thought he could be a Black American singer. 1258 01:01:28,300 --> 01:01:30,840 All the cabbies in London said, "Did you see that guy last night? 1259 01:01:30,860 --> 01:01:32,560 "I thought it was Luther Vandross." 1260 01:01:32,580 --> 01:01:35,640 I have to say most of my favourite singers were American. 1261 01:01:35,660 --> 01:01:37,200 American Black guys. 1262 01:01:37,220 --> 01:01:40,280 And without them knowing it, they taught me to sing. 1263 01:01:40,300 --> 01:01:42,440 Most people thought it was someone else singing, 1264 01:01:42,460 --> 01:01:43,600 and it wasn't really him. 1265 01:01:43,620 --> 01:01:45,480 One of the morning shows, 1266 01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:47,800 they sort of thought they'd catch Rick out, 1267 01:01:47,820 --> 01:01:50,560 so they rang Rick in a hotel in Glasgow 1268 01:01:50,580 --> 01:01:52,960 and asked him to sing on the radio live. 1269 01:01:52,980 --> 01:01:55,120 That wasn't a problem for Rick. 1270 01:01:55,140 --> 01:01:56,760 Radio I just took off. 1271 01:01:56,780 --> 01:01:59,560 Cos once he'd done that, every Dj on Radio 1 1272 01:01:59,580 --> 01:02:01,480 all day was talking about it. 1273 01:02:01,500 --> 01:02:04,960 And for days saying, "Did you hear this kid? He's unbelievable." 1274 01:02:04,980 --> 01:02:07,400 I played this song, and I think I played it again. 1275 01:02:07,420 --> 01:02:08,800 It was so good. 1276 01:02:08,820 --> 01:02:11,920 And hurt you... 1277 01:02:12,980 --> 01:02:16,480 It is just the perfect pop song. 1278 01:02:16,500 --> 01:02:19,360 Once these things are released, we are onto the next things. 1279 01:02:19,380 --> 01:02:21,240 We're not paying much attention. 1280 01:02:21,260 --> 01:02:23,760 Till suddenly, I find out he's on Top Of The Pops. 1281 01:02:23,780 --> 01:02:27,280 1282 01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:29,240 MAN: Close for three, can you? 1283 01:02:29,260 --> 01:02:30,800 Ancl suddenly, we're number one. 1284 01:02:30,820 --> 01:02:33,200 Ancl we are number one in France, 1285 01:02:33,220 --> 01:02:36,600 and Germany and all of Europe. 1286 01:02:36,620 --> 01:02:38,480 In 25 countries, we're number one. 1287 01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:40,280 Some records you can't stop, you know. 1288 01:02:42,340 --> 01:02:45,760 It's one of those melodies that puts you in a time and a place 1289 01:02:45,780 --> 01:02:47,480 and reminds you of where you were. 1290 01:02:47,500 --> 01:02:50,440 And it defines a moment in time. 1291 01:03:02,540 --> 01:03:06,760 Kylie Minogue was a name that neither Matt nor I had heard. 1292 01:03:06,780 --> 01:03:08,680 Ancl Neighbours was 1293 01:03:08,700 --> 01:03:10,920 just before the one o'clock news on the BBC. 1294 01:03:10,940 --> 01:03:14,440 How would you like to come in and try singing in a proper studio 1295 01:03:14,460 --> 01:03:16,120 to see just what you can do? 1296 01:03:16,140 --> 01:03:18,480 I mean, we are always on the lookout for new talent, 1297 01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:20,160 and thanks to Scott here, 1298 01:03:20,180 --> 01:03:22,640 we might just have struck gold with you. 1299 01:03:22,660 --> 01:03:24,800 Me? You want me? That's right. 1300 01:03:24,820 --> 01:03:26,360 I could be a singer! 1301 01:03:26,380 --> 01:03:27,680 That's great. 1302 01:03:27,700 --> 01:03:29,840 I don't believe it! 1303 01:03:29,860 --> 01:03:31,400 In Australia, 1304 01:03:31,420 --> 01:03:34,760 Mushroom was a company owned by Michael Gudinski, 1305 01:03:34,780 --> 01:03:36,280 who was a promoter. 1306 01:03:36,300 --> 01:03:38,760 He was doing the tours and the big gigs. 1307 01:03:38,780 --> 01:03:42,200 Pete had done a thing where he seconded Mike Duffy, 1308 01:03:42,220 --> 01:03:44,680 one of our engineers, to go down to Australia. 1309 01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:47,520 We sent Mike down on a sabbatical for six months 1310 01:03:47,540 --> 01:03:50,160 to teach these guys how to use the equipment. 1311 01:03:50,180 --> 01:03:54,800 One of the first things Michael did was to give Kylie to Mike and say, 1312 01:03:54,820 --> 01:03:57,760 "Make a record with her," and they chose The Loco-Motion. 1313 01:03:57,780 --> 01:04:01,200 Can do it with ease 1314 01:04:01,220 --> 01:04:04,600 Than learning your ABCs 1315 01:04:04,620 --> 01:04:06,040 1316 01:04:06,060 --> 01:04:09,400 1317 01:04:09,420 --> 01:04:12,600 That became the biggest-selling single of the decade in Australia. 1318 01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:14,880 I got Mike on the phone. He always calls me boss. 1319 01:04:14,900 --> 01:04:18,040 "Boss, I've got a hit. I'm number one in Australia." 1320 01:04:18,060 --> 01:04:21,240 "Are you?" "Yeah, I've sold 100,000 records." 1321 01:04:21,260 --> 01:04:23,000 The next logical step, 1322 01:04:23,020 --> 01:04:26,560 with Neighbours being a big success in the UK, 1323 01:04:26,580 --> 01:04:29,120 was to go to the mothers hip, 1324 01:04:29,140 --> 01:04:31,640 the homeland of where Mike Duffy came from, 1325 01:04:31,660 --> 01:04:33,520 and go to Stock Aitken Waterman. 1326 01:04:33,540 --> 01:04:35,840 "Would you do the next Kylie single for me?" 1327 01:04:35,860 --> 01:04:37,800 I said, "Yeah, course, no problem. 1328 01:04:37,820 --> 01:04:41,080 "The next time she's in London, pop her round the studio." 1329 01:04:41,100 --> 01:04:43,120 Now, what I can't say to him is, 1330 01:04:43,140 --> 01:04:45,560 "I've got six records in the top ten, 1331 01:04:45,580 --> 01:04:47,800 "and I've got artists queueing out the door. 1332 01:04:47,820 --> 01:04:49,400 "We don't have time." 1333 01:04:49,420 --> 01:04:51,200 I got a phone call from Pete. 1334 01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:54,120 He said, "Have you heard of this TV show called Neighbours?" 1335 01:04:54,140 --> 01:04:55,520 And I went, "Yes." 1336 01:04:55,540 --> 01:04:58,200 He said, "Do you know who Kylie Minogue is?" I went, "no." 1337 01:04:58,220 --> 01:05:00,440 He said, "Well, she's the star of Neighbours." 1338 01:05:00,460 --> 01:05:03,000 And he said, "I have a deal with Mushroom Records. 1339 01:05:03,020 --> 01:05:05,600 "They want me to sign Kylie Minogue. 1340 01:05:05,620 --> 01:05:07,160 "Will you sign her?" 1341 01:05:07,180 --> 01:05:11,880 And I went, "Yes, if you make the record." 1342 01:05:11,900 --> 01:05:13,360 And he went, "No." 1343 01:05:13,380 --> 01:05:15,520 I said, "Well, then I'm not signing her." 1344 01:05:15,540 --> 01:05:17,720 So for about five years, 1345 01:05:17,740 --> 01:05:21,560 I felt physically sick every time I heard one of her records, 1346 01:05:21,580 --> 01:05:25,080 thinking, "God, if she'd been signed to me, 1347 01:05:25,100 --> 01:05:28,960 "my label would have gone insane." 1348 01:05:28,980 --> 01:05:32,200 So we arranged for Kylie to come over for a week, 1349 01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:34,760 and she would be in the studio with Matt and Mike. 1350 01:05:34,780 --> 01:05:38,120 And we would make a record, and then she would go back into the show. 1351 01:05:38,140 --> 01:05:41,760 Neighbours was a gruelling soap-opera schedule, 1352 01:05:41,780 --> 01:05:44,920 so in order to have time to get to London, 1353 01:05:44,940 --> 01:05:48,440 the scriptwriters would have to write me out of the storyline. 1354 01:05:48,460 --> 01:05:50,480 This was my first international trip 1355 01:05:50,500 --> 01:05:53,040 and I was, what, 19 years old or something. 1356 01:05:53,060 --> 01:05:55,800 I speak with Pete and say, "Kylie is here. 1357 01:05:55,820 --> 01:05:59,040 "How can we get her into the studio? What's the time?" 1358 01:05:59,060 --> 01:06:01,240 He said, "Well, the guys are working 1359 01:06:01,260 --> 01:06:03,600 "on some other things they need to finish. 1360 01:06:03,620 --> 01:06:07,080 "Give us a day or two, and we'll come up with something." 1361 01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:09,120 David Howells, 1362 01:06:09,140 --> 01:06:11,280 who was waiting for Pete to tell him 1363 01:06:11,300 --> 01:06:12,920 she could go to the studio, 1364 01:06:12,940 --> 01:06:15,440 took her out for every museum. She went to Windsor. 1365 01:06:15,460 --> 01:06:17,640 Took her everywhere he could, took her shopping. 1366 01:06:17,660 --> 01:06:21,920 The clays rolled on, and we'd ask each clay, 1367 01:06:21,940 --> 01:06:24,680 and each clay, we would hear they're not ready. 1368 01:06:24,700 --> 01:06:26,880 On the final clay she was in the country, 1369 01:06:26,900 --> 01:06:28,760 she was going back that afternoon to Melbourne, 1370 01:06:28,780 --> 01:06:31,000 four o'clock plane out of Heathrow. 1371 01:06:31,020 --> 01:06:33,360 There was an unwritten rule that David Howells 1372 01:06:33,380 --> 01:06:35,160 would not go into the studio. 1373 01:06:35,180 --> 01:06:38,040 I'm not directly communicating with Matt and Mike. 1374 01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:39,920 I'm communicating with Pete. 1375 01:06:39,940 --> 01:06:41,600 Pete communicates with Matt and Mike. 1376 01:06:41,620 --> 01:06:43,600 We don't have any more clays. 1377 01:06:43,620 --> 01:06:46,440 We've got to get this clone and get back to Melbourne. 1378 01:06:46,460 --> 01:06:49,200 So I broke the unwritten rule of 1379 01:06:49,220 --> 01:06:51,680 "don't talk to Matt and Mike in the studio". 1380 01:06:51,700 --> 01:06:53,760 David comes to me 1381 01:06:53,780 --> 01:06:57,320 and said, "Well, Kylie's in reception now." 1382 01:06:57,340 --> 01:07:00,520 I said, "Who? Kylie? Who's Kylie?" 1383 01:07:00,540 --> 01:07:01,960 "Kylie Minogue." 1384 01:07:01,980 --> 01:07:04,480 So I get on the phone, I call Pete. He's in Manchester. 1385 01:07:04,500 --> 01:07:07,680 "Pete, do you know Kylie Minogue?" 1386 01:07:07,700 --> 01:07:12,240 "Oh! Forgot to tell you. Oh, shit." 1387 01:07:12,260 --> 01:07:14,440 You have to tell her to go, because we don't have time. 1388 01:07:14,460 --> 01:07:17,520 But Mike, being the gent he is, said, 1389 01:07:17,540 --> 01:07:18,920 "We got to make time. She's here. 1390 01:07:18,940 --> 01:07:20,880 "And she's flying back this afternoon." 1391 01:07:20,900 --> 01:07:23,240 We had two or three tracks that were lying around, 1392 01:07:23,260 --> 01:07:26,520 certainly one for Bananarama that hadn't been finished 1393 01:07:26,540 --> 01:07:28,720 and hadn't made it to the album. 1394 01:07:28,740 --> 01:07:31,000 I said, "Why don't we just tickle one of these up?" 1395 01:07:31,020 --> 01:07:33,600 Ancl Mike said, "No, we got to write something from scratch." 1396 01:07:33,620 --> 01:07:37,200 So, erm, we did, very quickly. 1397 01:07:37,220 --> 01:07:39,440 Because David Howells had told me all about her, 1398 01:07:39,460 --> 01:07:42,280 everything in her life seemed wonderful. 1399 01:07:44,140 --> 01:07:46,160 Why does she want to become a pop star? 1400 01:07:46,180 --> 01:07:48,440 She's got everything she needs. She's a famous actress. 1401 01:07:48,460 --> 01:07:50,640 She's doing it all. Why does she want to work with us? 1402 01:07:50,660 --> 01:07:53,200 I thought "Perhaps she hasn't got love." 1403 01:07:53,220 --> 01:07:54,880 She's got everything else, 1404 01:07:54,900 --> 01:07:57,040 but she really wants love, and she hasn't got it. 1405 01:07:57,060 --> 01:07:58,840 "I should be so lucky in love." 1406 01:07:58,860 --> 01:08:01,440 Ancl the song is a sad song, you know, 1407 01:08:01,460 --> 01:08:03,320 "It's all in my imagination." 1408 01:08:03,340 --> 01:08:05,480 1409 01:08:05,500 --> 01:08:07,960 1410 01:08:07,980 --> 01:08:11,040 All the time... 1411 01:08:11,060 --> 01:08:13,360 I really didn't know what to expect. 1412 01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:15,880 I'd only been in a couple of studios prior to that. 1413 01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:17,040 I got the first verse clone. 1414 01:08:17,060 --> 01:08:19,200 I said to Matt, "Go over there, write a second verse. 1415 01:08:19,220 --> 01:08:20,360 "Follow the meter." 1416 01:08:20,380 --> 01:08:23,200 So, they presented the song, I Should Be So Lucky. 1417 01:08:23,220 --> 01:08:26,600 Talked me through it, played it to me. 1418 01:08:26,620 --> 01:08:28,000 "This is how it goes." 1419 01:08:28,020 --> 01:08:30,320 Ancl she was quick. 1420 01:08:30,340 --> 01:08:34,800 Ancl she was learning the words as we were feeding them to her. 1421 01:08:34,820 --> 01:08:37,160 So she could project it to the mic, and she was good at that 1422 01:08:37,180 --> 01:08:39,680 because she learned a Neighbours script every clay. 1423 01:08:39,700 --> 01:08:43,200 I'm sure I sang it line by line to make sure we had everything 1424 01:08:43,220 --> 01:08:45,720 before I left again. 1425 01:08:45,740 --> 01:08:48,040 I do remember thinking, "This is really high." 1426 01:08:48,060 --> 01:08:51,000 It's a very high song to sing. 1427 01:08:51,020 --> 01:08:53,360 1428 01:08:53,380 --> 01:08:57,960 The fantasy that you'll be mine 1429 01:08:57,980 --> 01:09:02,200 That you're in love with me 1430 01:09:02,220 --> 01:09:05,560 But dreaming's all I do 1431 01:09:05,580 --> 01:09:07,760 1432 01:09:07,780 --> 01:09:11,680 Lucky, lucky, lucky 1433 01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:15,920 1434 01:09:15,940 --> 01:09:20,120 Lucky, lucky, lucky 1435 01:09:20,140 --> 01:09:23,680 1436 01:09:23,700 --> 01:09:26,320 Kept getting telexes from Australia saying, 1437 01:09:26,340 --> 01:09:28,520 "When are we gonna hear the record?" 1438 01:09:28,540 --> 01:09:31,680 So I remember thinking to myself, "I'd better listen to this record." 1439 01:09:31,700 --> 01:09:33,960 Pete wasn't terribly interested in this record. 1440 01:09:33,980 --> 01:09:38,520 And then I had an amazing phone call one day from Michael Hurll, 1441 01:09:38,540 --> 01:09:41,800 the BBC producer, who was in Australia. 1442 01:09:41,820 --> 01:09:43,960 "I hear you've recorded Kylie Minogue." 1443 01:09:43,980 --> 01:09:46,040 I said, "Yes." 1444 01:09:46,060 --> 01:09:48,920 "I've seen this girl. I'm down here. She's fantastic. 1445 01:09:48,940 --> 01:09:50,760 "I'd like to do something with her." 1446 01:09:50,780 --> 01:09:53,040 For the Christmas morning with Noel Edmonds, 1447 01:09:53,060 --> 01:09:55,320 which had the record Christmas viewing on. 1448 01:09:55,340 --> 01:09:57,360 1449 01:09:57,380 --> 01:09:59,600 1450 01:09:59,620 --> 01:10:02,400 All the time... 1451 01:10:02,420 --> 01:10:05,000 I was thrown into the back of a convertible car 1452 01:10:05,020 --> 01:10:08,120 and flying around Sydney doing this video, 1453 01:10:08,140 --> 01:10:10,320 which I remember being embarrassed of for years, 1454 01:10:10,340 --> 01:10:12,880 and now I absolutely love it. It's so amazing. 1455 01:10:12,900 --> 01:10:15,520 1456 01:10:15,540 --> 01:10:18,160 You would notice me... 1457 01:10:18,180 --> 01:10:19,680 And suddenly, before you know it, 1458 01:10:19,700 --> 01:10:21,880 we've had a number one record and a major new star. 1459 01:10:21,900 --> 01:10:24,880 Woolworths have come in for 200,000. 1460 01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:27,440 And for the first time, 1461 01:10:27,460 --> 01:10:30,160 we saw hands-on 1462 01:10:30,180 --> 01:10:35,280 how much money was generated by an artist and a record company. 1463 01:10:35,300 --> 01:10:40,200 Suddenly, we are making... millions and millions of pounds. 1464 01:10:40,220 --> 01:10:43,040 We're selling millions of records. 1465 01:10:43,060 --> 01:10:45,080 Ancl I think that was the downfall, 1466 01:10:45,100 --> 01:10:47,920 because then the accountants need to take over. 1467 01:10:47,940 --> 01:10:49,720 Welcome to the hit factory in London. 1468 01:10:49,740 --> 01:10:51,920 He was like a box of fireworks, you know? 1469 01:10:51,940 --> 01:10:54,920 When Pete heard the record, he went, "Kerching." 1470 01:10:54,940 --> 01:10:56,320 We're number one for five weeks, 1471 01:10:56,340 --> 01:10:58,520 and somebody says, "What's the follow-up?" 1472 01:10:58,540 --> 01:11:00,880 They still worked at an incredible pace. 1473 01:11:00,900 --> 01:11:02,880 Singers like that just come in, do the job. 1474 01:11:02,900 --> 01:11:05,480 The next thing I knew I'm on Top Of The Pops, number one. 1475 01:11:05,500 --> 01:11:07,640 It could get testy at times. 1476 01:11:07,660 --> 01:11:09,840 Matt decided that he'd had enough. 1477 01:11:09,860 --> 01:11:12,640 I thought, "Well, if that's the way you feel, fine. Screw you." 1478 01:11:12,660 --> 01:11:13,920 It wasn't the same. 1479 01:11:13,940 --> 01:11:17,520 1480 01:11:17,540 --> 01:11:19,640 MUSIC: 'Respectable' by Mel And Kim